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Old 04-06-2016, 10:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Genesis 3:22-23 - Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.

This tells me that they did not eat from the Tree or Life, because they did not live forever. The Lord sent them out of the garden before they eat from that tree.

I agree, no they did not.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
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side note.


Blessed is He who Finds Wisdom
17Her ways are pleasant ways And all her paths are peace. 18She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who hold her fast. 19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens.…


The Torah is the tree of life, a woman who needs to be loved.





Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery:
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This isn't complicated. When God told Adam that he would die in the same day that he ate the fruit (Gen. 2:17), the reference was to spiritual death. Not physical death. In other words, God told Adam that his relationship with God would be broken the moment he ate the fruit. Physical death was a later result of Adam's spiritual death.

Furthermore, we have no way of knowing what else God told Adam beyond what has been recorded in the Bible.
That has to be the excuse if death on the spot clearly doesn't happen. But again, unless all other creatures die, Adam wouldn't know what death even was, never mind spiritual death. If he does know, then why isn't it explained that he will cease to be immortal rather than die immediately, never mind never having it explained to him that the punishment is a broken relationship with God, rather than being made to work all his life...which is what it is recorded God told Adam? So I'm afraid that postulating a lot of important information that wasn't important enough to get into the Bible (which is supposed to tell us what we need to know) doesn't work.

I still say the story is a clumsy myth that does make God look the liar and the serpent merely told the truth.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:14 PM
 
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Maybe they were both right.
Maybe their bodies did die when they ate from the tree but their consciousness was uploaded to a computer
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
That has to be the excuse if death on the spot clearly doesn't happen. But again, unless all other creatures die, Adam wouldn't know what death even was, never mind spiritual death. If he does know, then why isn't it explained that he will cease to be immortal rather than die immediately, never mind never having it explained to him that the punishment is a broken relationship with God, rather than being made to work all his life...which is what it is recorded God told Adam? So I'm afraid that postulating a lot of important information that wasn't important enough to get into the Bible (which is supposed to tell us what we need to know) doesn't work.

I still say the story is a clumsy myth that does make God look the liar and the serpent merely told the truth.
You don't get to decide what details should have been included in the Bible. Again, we simply don't know what else God told Adam before the fall.

And since immediately after Adam sinned God told him that he would toil ''all the days of your life'' (Gen. 3:17), obviously then, physical death was not in view in Gen. 2:17 when God said that he would die the day he ate of the fruit.

I've already made it clear in post #2 that the Bible speaks of different categories of death, including spiritual death, and have provided the scripture to back it up.

Whether you believe any of it or not (and you don't) is your concern.
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Old 04-07-2016, 05:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You don't get to decide what details should have been included in the Bible. Again, we simply don't know what else God told Adam before the fall.

And since immediately after Adam sinned God told him that he would toil ''all the days of your life'' (Gen. 3:17), obviously then, physical death was not in view in Gen. 2:17 when God said that he would die the day he ate of the fruit.

I've already made it clear in post #2 that the Bible speaks of different categories of death, including spiritual death, and have provided the scripture to back it up.

Whether you believe any of it or not (and you don't) is your concern.
If we don't get to decide or at least argue the validity of what the Bible should say if it was reliable, that is simply dismissing human reasoning in favour of blind faith. That is all our 'concern' or our decision.

The quote you give only underlines the problem. If Adam had assumed all along that his life was finite (surely like all the other life-forms) then he would suppose that the threat was that he would die immediately he ate the fruit. This didn't happen and there is no explanation in the very full sentence of punishment of what the 'death' meant, if not that.

Suggesting that this important explanation was left out is the familiar explaining away of important stuff that gt to be explained, but isn't. So (not for the first time) yu simply update the Bible to get over the problem

And backdating later scriptural exigesis on various kinds of death, physical or spiritual, doesn't actually deal with the Eden -scenario problem, though you would clearly like to pretend that it does.
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:02 AM
 
2,760 posts, read 859,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
jesus/god said
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...03&version=KJV

let me guess, this means something completely different then what it say?


hljc, did omni god know in advance it was going to "change his plan".
Seems quit clear if A&E consumed from the tree of life first then from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they would have become eternal gods.

Quote:
Behold, the man is become as one of us,.....live forever
Was the serpent preprogrammed to only convince A&E to consume from the knowledge tree?

Last edited by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15; 04-07-2016 at 07:30 AM..
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:12 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,802,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
side note.


Blessed is He who Finds Wisdom
17Her ways are pleasant ways And all her paths are peace. 18She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who hold her fast. 19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens.…


The Torah is the tree of life, a woman who needs to be loved.





Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery:

I was taken by the Spirit into the garden to see the tree of life. It was covered in different colored buds of flowers on vine-like branchess. The buds are scriptures and via the Spirit, they open in front of your eyes to reveal their form, coloration, scent and beauty hidden within the bud, just as water in the natural forces open the bud of a rose into bloom. So much beauty, hidden for the One who approaches in love, Amen? Peace
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:52 PM
 
20,329 posts, read 15,701,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
If we don't get to decide or at least argue the validity of what the Bible should say if it was reliable, that is simply dismissing human reasoning in favour of blind faith. That is all our 'concern' or our decision.

The quote you give only underlines the problem. If Adam had assumed all along that his life was finite (surely like all the other life-forms) then he would suppose that the threat was that he would die immediately he ate the fruit. This didn't happen and there is no explanation in the very full sentence of punishment of what the 'death' meant, if not that.

Suggesting that this important explanation was left out is the familiar explaining away of important stuff that gt to be explained, but isn't. So (not for the first time) yu simply update the Bible to get over the problem

And backdating later scriptural exigesis on various kinds of death, physical or spiritual, doesn't actually deal with the Eden -scenario problem, though you would clearly like to pretend that it does.
What you don't get to decide is what God should have inspired the human writers to record in the Scriptures. We are given only a partial look at the pre-fall conversation of God with Adam.

And yes, what is taught later in the Bible does indeed have its roots in what is said in Genesis. Paul's teaching in Romans 5 regarding original sin goes back to Adam's sin. The spiritual death of which Paul spoke in Ephesians 2:1 is the spiritual death which came upon all men due to Adam's sin.

You reject what you neither understand or believe. And it's pointless trying to explain something to someone who thinks the whole thing is a fictional story anyway. I answered the OP's question, but I'm not about to take up my time bothering with your objections.
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Old 04-07-2016, 02:52 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,802,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And yes, what is taught later in the Bible does indeed have its roots in what is said in Genesis. Paul's teaching in Romans 5 regarding original sin goes back to Adam's sin. The spiritual death of which Paul spoke in Ephesians 2:1 is the spiritual death which came upon all men due to Adam's sin.

Amen
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