Who was right? God or the serpent? (Torah, myth, believe)
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That doesn't help. Whatever the means by which a (presumably) immortal Adam became mortal (and God had to have set it up, whichever way you argue it) Adam would only die after a very long time and not on the spot as is implied.
That still doesn't address the question of how the first pair even knew what they were being threatened with. It sorta suggests that everything else died and Adam was familiar with it. Death didn't come into the world with the Fall. It was there from the first - as the Archaeological record indicates: There are no examples of T Rex with herbivores' molars.
The punishments dished out to Adam does condemn him to returning to dust, but the point seems to be more that he will have to sweat. There is no "I warned you you would die and so you shall...after a really long lifetime in which you shall work your butt off." It's like the death is already in place and the hard work is the punishment.
So, yes, you can say that Adam knew what death was and the serpent was telling them that they wouldn't become mortal for disobeying God. But that makes no sense. If God had said that the punishment for disobeying him was loss of immortality, how could they ever have got the idea that God couldn't or wouldn't do it?
It really has to be a threat that they will drop dead on the spot, and that didn't happen, but their wising -up did, just as the serpent said.
So again it looks like the serpent told the truth, and God lied.
This isn't complicated. When God told Adam that he would die in the same day that he ate the fruit (Gen. 2:17), the reference was to spiritual death. Not physical death. In other words, God told Adam that his relationship with God would be broken the moment he ate the fruit. Physical death was a later result of Adam's spiritual death.
Furthermore, we have no way of knowing what else God told Adam beyond what has been recorded in the Bible.
Adam eat from the tree of life and as the result lived for 900 years and then he died and his soul died ....Actually he was a son of God , as God had a plan were these sons of God would live long lives until Noah came and God changed his plan and then these sons of God only live 120 years or less ........ Still Adam spirit would be still alive today , but with out a soul God would be appalled to visit his spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15
What's your evidence of this?
jesus/god said
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...03&version=KJV
let me guess, this means something completely different then what it say?
hljc, did omni god know in advance it was going to "change his plan".
Adam eat from the tree of life and as the result lived for 900 years and then he died and his soul died ....Actually he was a son of God , as God had a plan were these sons of God would live long lives until Noah came and God changed his plan and then these sons of God only live 120 years or less ........ Still Adam spirit would be still alive today , but with out a soul God would be appalled to visit his spirit
I made the same misunderstandings mentioned above when I read the Bible the first time.
First the forbidden fruit was on the Tree of Knowledge. (Ge2:16 ,17) There is no evidence that Adam and Eve did eat from the Tree of Life but there is also nothing concrete that says they didn't. What we do know is that there were two trees were in the middle of the Garden of Eden. (Ge 2:9) The Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad.
The second misunderstanding is that God limited mankind's lifespan to under 120 year during Noah's time. I at one time thought the same thing. However, this is an assumption and the Bible doesn't say that. In Genesis 6:3 God said, "My spirit will not tolerate man indefinitely". He was speaking of mankind as a whole. So the 120 years spoken of is the time limit he set on that entire civilization of mankind because mankind's "thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time." When God said the limit of mankind is going to be 120 years, He was saying 120 years from that point the flood come and wipe all those wicked people off the Earth. When the Bible speaks of God's Spirit many times this is referring to His purpose, plan or will. It is His spirit or will is what gives power in order to fulfill a plan or purpose. Though His spirit and power almost always together they are not the same thing. (Mic 3:8; Zec 4:6; Lu 1:17, 35; Ac 10:38) So God's spirit (purpose or plan) for the Earth couldn't tolerate man's badness of that time forever. If we read the whole 6th chapter of Genesis 6, that is all it speaks of and doesn't say anything about mankind's individual life span. Because there were others later in the Bible that lived longer than 120 years. Job lived longer than 120 years. Job 42:16
Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-05-2016 at 08:06 AM..
Eph. 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2] in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3]Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5] even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
To whom is Paul writing? He is writing to people who are physically alive, but who Paul said were at one time dead in their sins, and have been made alive. Since those who Paul is addressing are physically alive, the death of which Paul speaks is not physical death but is a different category of death. The death of which Paul speaks is spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God.
When Adam and the woman disobeyed God and ate the fruit they immediately died spiritually. That is, their relationship with God had been broken. That is why they both tried to hide from God after having eaten the fruit. They could do nothing about their now fallen condition and could only attempt to hide from God. But in grace, God came to them and gave them the Gospel message by which they could be saved or delivered from their fallen state.
Amen, Mike !
When you have ppl posting that are not spiritually awaken (born again), they're not going too get it, that is understand what the Spirit is saying through the scripture in your post .
What they don't understand just because they know the name Jesus Christ does not mean they are saved (spiritually alive in Christ) . Unless a person repents of their (unbelief) trespasses and sins they are just what the scripture says, "dead in their trespasses and sins" and yet we know and are taught that everyone is born in this state of being spiritually dead because of the curse of Adams disobedience and caused Adam to die a spiritual death when he ate the fruit of the tree of good and evil.
So the Scripture teach us when we have not made Jesus Christ (the second Adam) Savior of YOUR life YOU will continue to be dead in their trespasses and sins . And will continue not being able to comprehend what anyone is explaining and those who are trying to help will get the remarks such as the last poster. And will until they come to really know Jesus Christ by asking for the forgiveness of their trespasses and sins and repent never to walk that life again, but walk in the new creation which is in Christ Jesus, amen !!
Christ stands waiting for YOU to turn away from sin and not walk according to this world in YOUR sinful state (spiritually dead) , and too know that Jesus died on the cross for YOUR sin and if YOU would just turn to Him, and ask for forgiveness for YOUR sins and repent, YOUR spirit will be quickened and YOUR eyes opened (understand) made alive to the things and will of the Kingdom of God .
Jesus, "He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf." (2Cor.5:15)
Also all one has to do is read the book of John in chapter 3 it is all right there . Jesus explaining to Nicodemus and to us, that a man has to be born again to see and enter the Kingdom of God, amen !! Until then everyone will live a life spiritually dead because of the curse of what Adam and Eve did by disobeying God and eating the fruit from the tree of good and evil.
I made the same misunderstandings mentioned above when I read the Bible the first time.
First the forbidden fruit was on the Tree of Knowledge. (Ge2:16 ,17) There is no evidence that Adam and Eve did eat from the Tree of Life but there is also nothing concrete that says they didn't. What we do know is that there were two trees were in the middle of the Garden of Eden. (Ge 2:9) The Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad.
Genesis 3:22-23 - Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
This tells me that they did not eat from the Tree or Life, because they did not live forever. The Lord sent them out of the garden before they eat from that tree.
Genesis 3:22-23 - Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
This tells me that they did not eat from the Tree or Life, because they did not live forever. The Lord sent them out of the garden before they eat from that tree.
There was no instruction not to eat from the Tree of Life in the Bible.
How do we know perhaps they were eating from it and once they were blocked from it; that is when they began to die? Just speculating here. Perhaps the Tree of Life was just that. A tree that kept them alive. Perhaps it had to be eaten from regularly? For all we know you could be right and only one bite from it's fruit gave eternal life. I'm just looking at it from another angle. Either way, with no access to the Tree of Life their deaths were certain.
There was no instruction not to eat from the Tree of Life in the Bible.
How do we know perhaps they were eating from it and once they were blocked from it; that is when they began to die? Just speculating here. Perhaps the Tree of Life was just that. A tree that kept them alive. Perhaps it had to be eaten from regularly? For all we know you could be right and only one bite from it's fruit gave eternal life. I'm just looking at it from another angle. Either way, with no access to the Tree of Life their deaths were certain.
You're right - there was no instruction to NOT eat from the tree.
However, the way the Genesis 3 verse reads - it seems as though they had not yet eaten from the tree of life... and the Lord stated the result from eating from that tree, which was to live forever - which they did not do.
Adam eat from the tree of life and as the result lived for 900 years and then he died and his soul died ....Actually he was a son of God , as God had a plan were these sons of God would live long lives until Noah came and God changed his plan and then these sons of God only live 120 years or less ........ Still Adam spirit would be still alive today , but with out a soul God would be appalled to visit his spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15
What's your evidence of this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15
jesus/god said
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...03&version=KJV
let me guess, this means something completely different then what it say?
hljc, did omni god know in advance it was going to "change his plan".
Does it make you think about what else you thought you had correct about the bible only to be corrected by an atheist hljc?
hljc, did omni god know in advance it was going to "change his plan".
What do you think hljc?
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And, the death of death.
