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Old 04-09-2016, 10:40 PM
 
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Birth and rebirth



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Old 04-09-2016, 10:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Birth and rebirth
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I have ignored my own rule against trying to reason with unreasoning credulity. Clearly you either have not read, or do not comprehend, or simply decided to ignore anything I post and repeat your carnal-minded mantra. All births begin at CONCEPTION. To be conceived is NOT to be BORN. Our Spirits are conceived in Christ and are born as Spirit at our physical death.
You are the one with unreasoning credulity. Death of the physical body has NADA to do with your spirit being born from above. It cannot be born from above unless it is first BELOW. Our spirits are not conceived in Christ, they are consumed in Christ. There is absolutely nothing in literal death, in and of itself, our last enemy to be overcome, that in anyway contributes anything positive to your spirit being. That would make death of higher importance than Christ.

Haven't you noticed there are 2 births, 2 deaths, 2 covenants, 2 mothers, mentioned, but only one LIFE to be sought after (WHILE YOU LIVE), and that life is Christ and if YOU have to LITERALLY die to have it, then He died for nothing, because after all, all you have to do to be spiritually better off, is to physically die yourself. So that, in some weird sense, by your doctrine, death becomes a "works" of salvation for you??? Seriously? Death was a curse, and it still is. Peace
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:21 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I have ignored my own rule against trying to reason with unreasoning credulity. Clearly you either have not read, or do not comprehend, or simply decided to ignore anything I post and repeat your carnal-minded mantra. All births begin at CONCEPTION. To be conceived is NOT to be BORN. Our Spirits are conceived in Christ and are born as Spirit at our physical death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
You are the one with unreasoning credulity. Death of the physical body has NADA to do with your spirit being born from above. It cannot be born from above unless it is first BELOW. Our spirits are not conceived in Christ, they are consumed in Christ. There is absolutely nothing in literal death, in and of itself, our last enemy to be overcome, that in anyway contributes anything positive to your spirit being. That would make death of higher importance than Christ.
Death has no more importance than any birthing process. While in this body, we are embryo Spirits, NOT full grown Spirits. Our "birth" will be our physical death. Our life is our "pregnancy." We are to develop as properly as possible during this life so we won't be born spiritually deformed or miscarry. Jesus has paved the way and ensured that we will be connected to God upon our rebirth. Nothing about our Spiritual life will have anything to do with what is here in the physical womb of our earth existence.
Quote:
Haven't you noticed there are 2 births, 2 deaths, 2 covenants, 2 mothers, mentioned, but only one LIFE to be sought after (WHILE YOU LIVE), and that life is Christ and if YOU have to LITERALLY die to have it, then He died for nothing, because after all, all you have to do to be spiritually better off, is to physically die yourself. So that, in some weird sense, by your doctrine, death becomes a "works" of salvation for you??? Seriously? Death was a curse, and it still is. Peace
We have nothing to do with our salvation. That was ALL Jesus. We are responsible for nurturing the development and maturation of our embryo Spirit through love of God and each other every day and repenting when we don't.
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:06 AM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,968,343 times
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Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
Don't tell me not to use Paul's letters. The fact of the matter is as far I am concerned, he was and still is the greatest man who ever lived besides Christ. Your statements are heresy and your writings are not to be trusted by anyone.


No wonder you can not interpret Scripture. You reject he whom Christ has sent and so you reject what Christ has said through him. What is inspired by the Spirit can only be rightfully interpreted by the Spirit.
JN 13:20 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receives whomsoever I send receives Me; and he that receives Me receives Him that sent Me."

Written by John.
JN 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ." The law is indeed truth when received by the Spirit but for the carnal man it is only facts/letter but nonetheless true because it comes from God. The Word is always the Truth to those who have the Spirit but for the unbeliever/carnal man it is only the letter of the law.


It is you who do not know how language is used in the Bible. Comparing how the language/words are used is how you interpret the Scriptures
Jesus did not send Paul. He sent those as He was sent, same words and glory. Paul did not say or do what Jesus did. He just said that he was sent by Him. But Jesus described those He sent and would send. Paul was a heretic whom you follow.



I am the light of the world no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because he will possess the light of life.

Those are not my words but the words of the Lord who sent me. I came down from heaven to do His will not my own.

Anyone who does His will shall know about this teaching namely whether it comes from God or I am speaking on my own.

The works I do, the very works I am doing testify that God has sent me.

The works I do in my Father's name bear witness for me. If you do not want to believe in me then believe in the works so you will see that the Lord is in me and I in Him.

Jesus sent me!!!
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Old 04-10-2016, 05:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Jesus did not send Paul. He sent those as He was sent, same words and glory. Paul did not say or do what Jesus did. He just said that he was sent by Him. But Jesus described those He sent and would send. Paul was a heretic whom you follow.



I am the light of the world no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because he will possess the light of life.

Those are not my words but the words of the Lord who sent me. I came down from heaven to do His will not my own.

Anyone who does His will shall know about this teaching namely whether it comes from God or I am speaking on my own.

The works I do, the very works I am doing testify that God has sent me.

The works I do in my Father's name bear witness for me. If you do not want to believe in me then believe in the works so you will see that the Lord is in me and I in Him.

Jesus sent me!!!
You should reference what you quote and I and others do not recognize that Jesus sent you.
Previously you also did not reference what you quoted and so I was not able to find the full context of it. Play fair.
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Old 04-10-2016, 05:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Please show me how you are like the wind while in your physical body, Rbbi.

John 3:5-8
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

That bloweth and listeth trick should be something to watch while in your physical body, Rbbi. As to the born again references, the word gennaō is mistranslated as "born." It means conceived (as in egg and sperm).

born again = gennaō anōthen

gennaō = conceived, begotten
anōthen = from the beginning (over again)

It is not a birth while still in this physical body because to be born as Spirit is to leave this body.
Not only is "born again" like a gentle wind flowing through the spirit but also like "rivers of living water" that flows from the inmost part of us also metaphorically called the "belly". It is not the whole being/body that is "born again" but rather the spirit of a man. In the resurrection however, the whole body will be changed into His likeness.


Man is born with inherited sin [born the first time] but Christ rebirths our spirit in Holiness [born again] by the Atonement and the Water of the Spirit/Word.


I experience born again in my spirit like the wind but to your eyes it is invisible because it is Spirit and not subject to proof beyond what Christ has said but nevertheless verifiable to those who receive it.


JN 7:38 "He that believes on Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

Does that mean that I flow like a river or flitter around like the wind. How silly to think that is what we mean or what Jesus meant. It is the Spirit that flows in us supernaturally which is the very nature of God to do; cleaning and renewing daily to attune us to the will of God. And not according to the old but rather new birth of spirit. It is also called the "Spirit of Supplication" in that we often do not even know how to pray but the Spirit prays in us for our well being and that of others.


If this has not happened for you or anyone else then you must ask or repent of what might be hindering your request.

Last edited by garya123; 04-10-2016 at 06:50 AM..
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:32 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,794,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
not only is "born again" like a gentle wind flowing through the spirit but also like "rivers of living water" that flows from the inmost part of us also metaphorically called the "belly". It is not the whole being/body that is "born again" but rather the spirit of a man. In the resurrection however, the whole body will be changed into his likeness.


Man is born with inherited sin [born the first time] but christ rebirths our spirit in holiness [born again] by the atonement and the water of the spirit/word.


I experience born again in my spirit like the wind but to your eyes it is invisible because it is spirit and not subject to proof beyond what christ has said but nevertheless verifiable to those who receive it.


Jn 7:38 "he that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

does that mean that i flow like a river or flitter around like the wind. How silly to think that is what we mean or what jesus meant. It is the spirit that flows in us supernaturally which is the very nature of god to do; cleaning and renewing daily to attune us to the will of god. And not according to the old but rather new birth of spirit. It is also called the "spirit of supplication" in that we often do not even know how to pray but the spirit prays in us for our well being and that of others.


If this has not happened for you or anyone else then you must ask or repent of what might be hindering your request.

amen
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:00 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,794,650 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Death has no more importance than any birthing process. While in this body, we are embryo Spirits, NOT full grown Spirits. Our "birth" will be our physical death. Our life is our "pregnancy." We are to develop as properly as possible during this life so we won't be born spiritually deformed or miscarry. Jesus has paved the way and ensured that we will be connected to God upon our rebirth. Nothing about our Spiritual life will have anything to do with what is here in the physical womb of our earth existence.We have nothing to do with our salvation. That was ALL Jesus. We are responsible for nurturing the development and maturation of our embryo Spirit through love of God and each other every day and repenting when we don't.

You can't nurture and mature what you don't have, and according to you your maturity comes at death of the body. Your New Age doctrine is backwards, does not fit the pattern given us either, therefore, and has NOTHING to do with what was taught by Yeshua or the rest of the writers.

And even if you did have it, which you clearly don't, you cannot add one cubit to your stature (of Christ in you) by taking THOUGHT. That means YOU, can't make YOU any more "spiritual" by ANY works on your part. And certainly not by dying a physical death which does NOTHING to change the spiritual condition you were born with, except to expose what kind of robe you have on, OR NOT.

His Spirit is seeded into you as a babe in a manger after you have repented of your dead works/sins, and it must be fed SPIRITUAL food from the Word of G-d, the manna that comes from heaven. It is by THIS MANNA that the babe grows, which Yeshua displayed when He was 12 and astounded the Pharisees.

G-d is the One who plants (outer court/Yeshua/30 fold/Passover), the One who waters (inner court/Emmanuel, G-d as HG is with us/60 fold/Pentecost), and the One who brings the increase (Holy of Holies/fully mature sons/100 fold realm/Tabernacles), so that NO MAN can glory in ANY PART of his spiritual development by saying he did ANYTHING. Notice there's an order here to spiritual growth, none of which involves the participant in G-d's plan, LITERALLY DYING, to achieve any of it.

The only death that profits you ANYTHING, is the death to self WHILE YOU'RE STILL ALIVE = pick up your cross and follow Me. He was very plain about telling them where He was going, THEY COULD NOT GO, also, the reason being they didn't have His Spirit as their covering yet, which didn't happen until Pentecost. He didn't tell them, they could have it when they died. Peace
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Genesis 15:16 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:3 What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Imputed righteousness. Case closed.

If you're depending on your own righteousness to save you, you're wrong.
And what has been unfairly imputed to you by not believing something?
Or are you merely referencing a similar quality of another?

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