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Old 04-06-2016, 11:27 AM
 
741 posts, read 272,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
There's a very good reason why Job went through what he did. He was to receive the DOUBLE PORTION. Peace
Well, the suffering wasn't a payment for the double portion though. Proverbs 10:22 says, "It is the blessing of Jehovah that makes one rich, And He adds no pain with it." Suffering doesn't accompany God's blessings.

The main reason was to answer the accusations of Satan. Does a righteous man do what God tells him for selfish reasons?

Job 2:4 "But Satan answered Jehovah: “Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life. But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike his bone and flesh, and he will surely curse you to your very face.”

Satan also accused that God's protection is doing mankind a disservice. Satan's reasoning being that God hasn't given man any reason to respect Him.

Job 1:9, 10 says, "At that Satan answered Jehovah: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? Have you not put up a protective hedge around him and his house and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock has spread out in the land."

Can we not see this reasoning in many of the doctrines of today? Telling people some horrible catastrophe is God's doing so some sort of fear or understanding of God can come from it. Proverbs 10:22 says that is not true. Can we respect God without harm coming to us?

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-06-2016 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:15 PM
 
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Pick up your cross and follow Me. Peace
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:31 PM
 
741 posts, read 272,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Pick up your cross and follow Me. Peace
Yet God didn't create the cross or torture for that matter. There is no account that Adam and Eve were tortured before God placed them in the Garden of Eden. The toughest challenge they had was not eat from one tree. What I wouldn't give for such a simple task today. Is Proverbs 10:22 a lie? Is it God that adds pain with His blessings? I feel I must stick with what it says in Proverbs. Otherwise God is a Sadist that gets pleasure from pain...the Bible doesn't support that at all. Again, the cost is not pain it's obedience. Which as with Job, obedience to God attracts pain from, not God but Satan and his followers. Just like the 'cross' was handed to Jesus, not from God's hand but by those that were manipulated by Satan.
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Old 04-06-2016, 05:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Yet God didn't create the cross or torture for that matter. There is no account that Adam and Eve were tortured before God placed them in the Garden of Eden. The toughest challenge they had was not eat from one tree. What I wouldn't give for such a simple task today. Is Proverbs 10:22 a lie? Is it God that adds pain with His blessings? I feel I must stick with what it says in Proverbs. Otherwise God is a Sadist that gets pleasure from pain...the Bible doesn't support that at all. Again, the cost is not pain it's obedience. Which as with Job, obedience to God attracts pain from, not God but Satan and his followers. Just like the 'cross' was handed to Jesus, not from God's hand but by those that were manipulated by Satan.

And Who wrote about it in Isaiah, wrote of the suffering servant? Was it Satan? Who permitted Job to be tried as iron is tried in the fire, and as gold is refined? Dying to the flesh causes suffering, that is my point; whether it's a real cross or the altar we ties ourselves down to with cords of love that cannot be broken, it COSTS something to follow the Lord, wheresoever He goest.

When you are of a mature age, Peter, someone will carry you where you would not go. If you don't know this, you haven't followed Him close enough yet. Peace
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
And Who wrote about it in Isaiah, wrote of the suffering servant? Was it Satan? Who permitted Job to be tried as iron is tried in the fire, and as gold is refined? Dying to the flesh causes suffering, that is my point; whether it's a real cross or the altar we ties ourselves down to with cords of love that cannot be broken, it COSTS something to follow the Lord, wheresoever He goest.

When you are of a mature age, Peter, someone will carry you where you would not go. If you don't know this, you haven't followed Him close enough yet. Peace
No need to insult me. I'm a 40 year young student of the Bible. If you read my post you have seen I said that there is a cost. That cost is obedience. But the suffering is not from God. The Bible is clear on that, is it not? He is the one that brings us through it and strengthens us. He uses Satan's curses against us and turns them into blessings.

As I said I have faith in the Bible at Proverbs 10:22 that says, "It is the blessing of Jehovah that makes one rich, And He adds no pain with it." The cost is not pain and suffering.

“Let no man say when he is tested, I am tested by God; for it is not possible for God to be tested by evil, and he himself puts no man to such a test.” - James 1:13

"Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows." James 1:17

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort.” 1 Cor 1:3


I guess I should have asked if you believe the 66 books of the Bible is the Word of God. I forget sometimes that there are few that still believe in the Bible. Sometimes I get neck deep in a discussion only to find out that the person doesn't believe the Bible is the Word of God. Is quoting these scriptures in vain?

No where is the Bible is God blamed for suffering and Job never accused of God of doing something unholy. He wrongly thought he somehow deserved it no thanks to his companions. God allowed it yes, yet that doesn't put God at fault for the suffering. He doesn't command Satan to harm anyone. Satan would kill us all just to prove his point to try and prove God wrong. It's like Satan punches us then points to God and says, 'He did it'. Should we really blame God? That is Satan's question. Will we curse God to His face for our suffering? If we are blaming Him then we are cursing Him and proving Satan right.
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:16 PM
 
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God in that story represented Job's higher mind. His subconscious mind. So, if you consider your subconscious mind to be a positive thing, then the answer would be yes.
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Old 04-07-2016, 05:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
God in that story represented Job's higher mind. His subconscious mind. So, if you consider your subconscious mind to be a positive thing, then the answer would be yes.
In a sense yes. Job was trying to endure his situation through the eyes of faith. By what he knows deep down about God. Job didn't have all the pieces and was trying to figure things out. He didn't know that the Devil was behind all his suffering. Today we do. Because of Job we know how to act and think even when we don't have all the pieces. When in doubt, recall who God is and look to God's promises.
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
In a sense yes. Job was trying to endure his situation through the eyes of faith. By what he knows deep down about God. Job didn't have all the pieces and was trying to figure things out. He didn't know that the Devil was behind all his suffering. Today we do. Because of Job we know how to act and think even when we don't have all the pieces. When in doubt, recall who God is and look to God's promises.
Satan represented the part of Job's mind that accused other people of sin. It all started when he began worrying about his sons committing sin.

Satan = Accusing other people (such as nonbelievers) of "sin". Judging others.
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:59 AM
 
741 posts, read 272,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Satan represented the part of Job's mind that accused other people of sin. It all started when he began worrying about his sons committing sin.

Satan = Accusing other people (such as nonbelievers) of "sin". Judging others.
I know there are those that believe that the book of Job is not based on actual people. That the event was a work of Moses meant to be symbolic. However, there is nothing in the Bible that says that Job isn't real or that Satan isn't real. So to find that belief not to be true. This is not to say that mankind is without fault. The Bible says mankind certainly have done their own damage to their fellow man from their own wicked desires. However, Satan certainly stokes those wicked desires. We must do as Jesus did when confronted with Satan. Stand our ground and obey God.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:24 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,798,860 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
No need to insult me. I'm a 40 year young student of the Bible. If you read my post you have seen I said that there is a cost. That cost is obedience. But the suffering is not from God. The Bible is clear on that, is it not? He is the one that brings us through it and strengthens us. He uses Satan's curses against us and turns them into blessings.

As I said I have faith in the Bible at Proverbs 10:22 that says, "It is the blessing of Jehovah that makes one rich, And He adds no pain with it." The cost is not pain and suffering.

“Let no man say when he is tested, I am tested by God; for it is not possible for God to be tested by evil, and he himself puts no man to such a test.” - James 1:13

"Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows." James 1:17

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort.” 1 Cor 1:3


I guess I should have asked if you believe the 66 books of the Bible is the Word of God. I forget sometimes that there are few that still believe in the Bible. Sometimes I get neck deep in a discussion only to find out that the person doesn't believe the Bible is the Word of God. Is quoting these scriptures in vain?

No where is the Bible is God blamed for suffering and Job never accused of God of doing something unholy. He wrongly thought he somehow deserved it no thanks to his companions. God allowed it yes, yet that doesn't put God at fault for the suffering. He doesn't command Satan to harm anyone. Satan would kill us all just to prove his point to try and prove God wrong. It's like Satan punches us then points to God and says, 'He did it'. Should we really blame God? That is Satan's question. Will we curse God to His face for our suffering? If we are blaming Him then we are cursing Him and proving Satan right.

That was not an insult, it was an impersonal statement of fact. But I'll make it less personal for you. If ANYONE doesn't realize that G-d takes you through Job-like experiences to temper you as steel is tempered, then it's because you haven't walked with Him long enough. There is a difference between "tested" or tempted as you posted above, and "tempered". Keep walking.....Peace


PS. YES, I believe in the Word of G-d. Just not carnally minded men's interpretations of it.
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