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Old 04-07-2016, 09:31 AM
 
9,162 posts, read 2,773,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Satan represented the part of Job's mind that accused other people of sin. It all started when he began worrying about his sons committing sin.

Satan = Accusing other people (such as nonbelievers) of "sin". Judging others.

No to all of it. Satan was not Job's mind, and the principle here is that what you fear most is what comes upon you. Job, who we were told was a righteous man at the very beginning of the text, had what he feared most come upon Him = G-D. Which is why he received the double portion, as will anyone who submits to being refined as gold is refined. Peace
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:57 AM
 
741 posts, read 270,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
That was not an insult, it was an impersonal statement of fact. But I'll make it less personal for you. If ANYONE doesn't realize that G-d takes you through Job-like experiences to temper you as steel is tempered, then it's because you haven't walked with Him long enough. There is a difference between "tested" or tempted as you posted above, and "tempered". Keep walking.....Peace


PS. YES, I believe in the Word of G-d. Just not carnally minded men's interpretations of it.
Ah. So like so many rather than just accept what it says you change it to fit doctrine. Then I have nothing else really to show you from the Bible since it will be changed by your interpretation.

Which I didn't interpret anything. Posted the scriptures as they were and asked questions which you don't answer clearly.

Also, you can leave out any suggestions how long I have walked with God unless you want to ask me. You don't know what I have been through or what I have seen. Assuming what I have experienced or what I have not is rude. I have not challenged your walk with God on a personal level at all. I have questioned your interpretations and stuck with the Bible.

Could I get answer of yes or no on the following question.

Is God the cause of our suffering?
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:24 AM
 
9,162 posts, read 2,773,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Ah. So like so many rather than just accept what it says you change it to fit doctrine. Then I have nothing else really to show you from the Bible since it will be changed by your interpretation.

Which I didn't interpret anything. Posted the scriptures as they were and asked questions which you don't answer clearly.

Also, you can leave out any suggestions how long I have walked with God unless you want to ask me. You don't know what I have been through or what I have seen. Assuming what I have experienced or what I have not is rude. I have not challenged your walk with God on a personal level at all. I have questioned your interpretations and stuck with the Bible.

Could I get answer of yes or no on the following question.

Is God the cause of our suffering?

We learn line upon line, and if we press in, we learn precept upon precept. It's not about MY interpretation, it's about does THEIR interpretation of line upon line, line up with the precept or not, because as I have said on here in different threads, there are precepts or principles that are "hidden in plain sight" all through all 66 books.

This is how we KNOW if we go on to follow the Lord, because while men could and did change interpretations to fit their personal agendas, even changed words of translations to do the same, what they did NOT change, are the principles the scriptures are expounding upon. Only because they couldn't readily see them without the Spirit giving them understanding, and because to remove one wouldn't work even if they could see, because that principle exists in all the other books as well.

As an example, I'll give you the first one He ever gave me. He separates light from darkness.

No, G-d is not the cause of our suffering, as if He tortures us. He IS the cause in the sense that He created the waster to destroy flesh. Now that being said, it's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it? G-d chastens SONS. G-d is sovereign, Satan is but a tool created for a job. So yes, as Job shows plainly, G-d does allow Satan to do his job, which is why the scripture says, agree with your ADVERSARY quickly while you are in the way with him. His ways are not our ways, His ways are much higher than our ways. Peace
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:31 PM
 
741 posts, read 270,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
We learn line upon line, and if we press in, we learn precept upon precept. It's not about MY interpretation, it's about does THEIR interpretation of line upon line, line up with the precept or not, because as I have said on here in different threads, there are precepts or principles that are "hidden in plain sight" all through all 66 books.
Who taught you this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
This is how we KNOW if we go on to follow the Lord, because while men could and did change interpretations to fit their personal agendas, even changed words of translations to do the same, what they did NOT change, are the principles the scriptures are expounding upon. Only because they couldn't readily see them without the Spirit giving them understanding, and because to remove one wouldn't work even if they could see, because that principle exists in all the other books as well.

As an example, I'll give you the first one He ever gave me. He separates light from darkness.
What are you quoting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post

No, G-d is not the cause of our suffering, as if He tortures us. He IS the cause in the sense that He created the waster to destroy flesh. Now that being said, it's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it? G-d chastens SONS. G-d is sovereign, Satan is but a tool created for a job. So yes, as Job shows plainly, G-d does allow Satan to do his job, which is why the scripture says, agree with your ADVERSARY quickly while you are in the way with him. His ways are not our ways, His ways are much higher than our ways. Peace
God creates evil beings to do evil deeds?
The Bible says that is not possible.

Deuteronomy 32:4 "perfect is his activity". Creating an evil person to do an evil job is not perfect. If you think that Satan is a good gift and a perfect present then...man Satan has tricked you good and you are putting the blame exactly where Satan wants you to put it. So much for 'higher ways'. That is not a 'higher way'. Creating evil beings to do evil things is not 'higher' it's evil no matter how you spin it.
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:12 PM
 
9,162 posts, read 2,773,481 times
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Again, if you can't see this side of Him, you still have to press in.

The Spirit of G-d is my teacher. And what am I quoting? I wrote that second paragraph, I wasn't quoting anything. Is that what you meant or which paragraph does that question belong to? Peace

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Last edited by Rbbi1; 04-07-2016 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:56 PM
 
741 posts, read 270,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Again, if you can't see this side of Him, you still have to press in. Peace


Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
That scripture is not referring to Satan. This was referring to Assyria. "Aha! the As·syrʹi·an, The rod to express my anger And the staff in their hand for my denunciation!" - Isaiah 10:5. God was going to use the nation of Assyria to bring judgement on the nation of Israel because of their unrighteous behavior. God tends to look down on Baal worship, child sacrifice and selling people into slavery for a pair of shoes.

I don't even think the name Satan even appears in the book of Isaiah. There is no 'side' to see. The Bible tells us what we should see in God. Perfection and Holiness. Not imperfection and evil. Is this the side you are saying God has? I, like my counterpart Job flat out reject that.

So if you are wanting me 'pressing in' to make something from that scripture that it is meaning Satan, then I must take a pass on that. There is no evidence that it's talking about Satan. In fact, if we read the whole chapter of Isaiah 54. Isaiah 54:16 in context shows that God is making a 'waster' for the defense of the righteous. Satan was not made for a defender of the righteous. Satan wants them completely destroyed. If God didn't send the Assyrians there would be no righteous people left in all of Israel. The line of Jacob would end in failure. Remember there is enmity between them. It was Satan who lured Israel into Baal worship in the first place. So God is casting out false worship that Satan put there in the first place. Why would God intentionally divide His people? Why would Jehovah send in an evil being to mislead people then bring an army to kill them? To toughen up a few thousand at the cost of hundreds of thousands of others for some better reward? That's insane!

Jesus said, “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?" - Matthew 12:25-26 Like wise if Jehovah fights Jehovah His Kingdom will fall.
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Old 04-07-2016, 02:56 PM
 
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You do understand that there are types and shadows in there, right? The Word is not SOLELY to be understood literally. Google the acronym PARDES to find out how the people of the Book approach study of it.

WHO put the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL in the garden? WHO created the tree in the first place? Who looked back on the 6 days of DARKNESS and light, and said it is ALL GOOD, EVEN VERY GOOD?

God created both good and evil. Job is about pointing out the necessity of both used by Him in the perfecting of His creation.

Isaiah 45: 6-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else; forming the light and creating darkness; making peace and creating evil. I the LORD do all these things.

Yeshua told Pilate about it, when Pilate asked Him if He knew he had the power to execute Him. Yeshua replied...

John 19: 10-11 No man can have power except it be given from above.

Which means Pilate's power to do evil was given him by G-d, since Pilate gave in to the demand of the Jews to crucify Him. Was that evil? Obviously. Was it necessary? Definitely.
Whose idea was it, Satan's or G-d's?

Acts 2:22-23 Men, Israelites, hear these words. Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by powerful works, and wonders, and miracles, which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know, this One given to you by the before-determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken and by lawless hands, crucifying Him, you put Him to death.

And again....

John 11:49-52 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 51 And this SPAKE HE NOT OF HIMSELF: but being high priest that year, he PROPHESIED that Jesus should die for that nation; 52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

G-d is sovereign and all things, including evil are in His hands. Which makes it possible for Paul to say.....

1Thes 5:18 In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God concerning you.

And this.....

Romans 8:28 And we know that ALL THINGS (including evil) work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Which is why Job admonished his wife/soul who wanted him to curse G-d and die, are we only to receive good from G-d and not evil? The soul always wants to curse G-d when the going gets rough. Or say that the rough going isn't from G-d. But just like He dried up the river to get Elijah to move on, so too does He dry up the things of His Spirit to get us to move on and press in to find out what it is He wants of us. Again, Satan is just a tool in His hand. Peace

Last edited by Rbbi1; 04-07-2016 at 03:27 PM..
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:32 PM
 
1,489 posts, read 611,241 times
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Amen!
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:43 PM
 
741 posts, read 270,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
You do understand that there are types and shadows in there, right? The Word is not SOLELY to be understood literally. Google the acronym PARDES to find out how the people of the Book approach study of it.
Only the Bible should determine when something is literally. Not doctrine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post

WHO put the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL in the garden? WHO created the tree in the first place? Who looked back on the 6 days of DARKNESS and light, and said it is ALL GOOD, EVEN VERY GOOD?
Adam and Eve already knew what bad was. They didn't need a tree to know bad. Jesus knows what bad is does that make him evil? God knows what bad is, that make Him evil? I'm guessing you don't believe in free-choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post

God created both good and evil. Job is about pointing out the necessity of both used by Him in the perfecting of His creation.
No he isn't. Creation was good before anything went wrong in Eden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post

Isaiah 45: 6-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else; forming the light and creating darkness; making peace and creating evil. I the LORD do all these things.
Horrible translation. Disaster or calamity should be used. Those translations support an evil god. Who does He bring disaster on? Evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post

Yeshua told Pilate about it, when Pilate asked Him if He knew he had the power to execute Him. Yeshua replied...

John 19: 10-11 No man can have power except it be given from above.

Which means Pilate's power to do evil was given him by G-d, since Pilate gave in to the demand of the Jews to crucify Him. Was that evil? Obviously. Was it necessary? Definitely.
Whose idea was it, Satan's or G-d's?

Acts 2:22-23 Men, Israelites, hear these words. Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by powerful works, and wonders, and miracles, which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know, this One given to you by the before-determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken and by lawless hands, crucifying Him, you put Him to death.

And again....

John 11:49-52 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
]And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he PROPHESIED that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

G-d is sovereign and all things, including evil are in His hands. Which makes it possible for Paul to say.....

1Thes 5:18 In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God concerning you.

And this.....

Romans 8:28 And we know that ALL THINGS (including evil) work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Which is why Job admonished his wife/soul who wanted him to curse G-d and die, are we only to receive good from G-d and not evil? The soul always wants to curse G-d when the going gets rough. Or say that the rough going isn't from G-d. But just like He dried up the river to get Elijah to move on, so too does He dry up the things of His Spirit to get us to move on and press in to find out what it is He wants of us. Again, Satan is just a tool in His hand. Peace
All of the scriptures you presented are one-sided and you ignore all the ones I posted as contradictory. There are no contradictions in the Bible and we don't change what they say to fit doctrine. You say not to read the Bible as literal unless you tell me what is literal. I reject that. The Bible tells me what is literal. I have no reason from the Bible to change the scriptures I posted from what they literally say. It certainly will not be some Googled website. So why do you only view your posted scriptures as literal and not the others? Doctrine?

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-07-2016 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:57 PM
 
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The book of Job show God`s sovereign authority , and God tells of the devil Leviathan of Job 41 , as the king of all the children of pride on verse 34........ and God does offer the people who spoke against him mercy if Job prays for them , and the all these people who spoke against God blessed Job and God blessed Job with many blessings and Job had a very long life , hundred and forty years
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