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Old 04-10-2016, 02:14 PM
 
2,531 posts, read 1,944,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Which means that you have no verifiable evidence at all...absolutely nothing.

For a Christian it is as the Scriptures say, Heb 11:1 "Faith is the evidence if things not seen." Our Faith is not as an unbeliever sees faith but rather the Spirit of God bears witness/evidence to us that a certain thing comes from God and therefor to be trusted.


You intuitively believe you have a human spirit but have you or those you know seen it. No they only see and hear you. Yet, you have faith in yourself but no proof that your spirit exists. Well, we must [to have Eternal Life] "hear" [still small voice] prompting Faith in our spirit of the things of God because God is Spirit without physical attributes.


Or it can be said that because spiritual things are invisible, faith is the only evidence or mechanism whereby we receive Spiritual things and if we say yes to it, then the full manifestation of spiritual things follow such as Love, Joy, Peace, kindness, etc.. Changed behavior/changed lives for the better are the visible/verifiable proofs.


But besides all of this, Jesus showed many proofs and turned the world upside down like no other in history. God has made sure that every man has been given a measure of Faith but too many repress it and end up receiving nothing.
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Old 04-10-2016, 05:28 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,792,733 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Thank you for your explanation. That gets into the whole nature of consciousness, which is entirely over my head anyway. I still don't understand how you perceive without use of the service of the brain.


I can agree with you mostly about the whole fall of man. I don't believe there ever was a fall. I believe we were tricked into believing there was. Does that count?

It's one of those things you have to experience.


Only if we were also tricked into believing we have to die, which was a result.


Thanks for engaging me, anyway.....Peace
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:43 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I don't have to ask, but I wanted to hear what YOU THINK they are. I KNOW what they are from 1 Cor 13, Galatians 5 and the Sermon on the Mount. Is that your understanding too???
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
It doesn't matter what I think. I have figured that out from being on C-D since 2009.
And look - I suggested what to read and you came back with entirely different verses. That's how much "what I think", matters.
If you don't think that 1 Cor 13, Galatians 5 and the Sermon on the Mount describe the Spirit as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Christ, then nothing else you think you know about the Spirit from other verses is relevant. The Spirit is unambiguous and it is clearly described in those verses. Anything that contradicts or is incompatible with those verses is from MEN and NOT from God or Jesus.
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:46 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We do what Jesus instructed us to do - test the Spirit against the Spirit of agape love (Who IS God). That is the absolute standard of God's truth as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. Under the New Covenant, Jesus abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love. We do not need anyone to teach us. But we need to be sincere enough to look into our hearts in agape love, NOT overwrite what is there with the "precepts and doctrines of men" about what religion says we should find there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
Amen to that and again I say Amen!
I am pleased we agree about this, garya. Anything else we might disagree about is not important. God Bless.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,261 posts, read 14,140,123 times
Reputation: 10126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If you don't think that 1 Cor 13, Galatians 5 and the Sermon on the Mount describe the Spirit as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Christ, then nothing else you think you know about the Spirit from other verses is relevant. The Spirit is unambiguous and it is clearly described in those verses. Anything that contradicts or is incompatible with those verses is from MEN and NOT from God or Jesus.
You asked me a question about the character of the Holy Spirit and compatibility.


I answered by suggesting you read John 14-16 - where Jesus describes some of what the Holy Spirit does. If you are really interested - read it and we can discuss.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
689 posts, read 416,905 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Almost no one, certainly not educated people, would serve a god with no evidence.
Do you mean Isaac Newton?

Get back to the reality, atheists.

In this very reality, humans in majority don't rely on evidence to reach a truth.

In this very reality, not very kind of truths can be evidenced. Even in the case where a specific kind of truths, such as science, can be evidenced, humans don't even bother to examine the evidence.

Humans in majority rely almost exclusively on witnessing to reach a truth. That is, they rely on putting faith in a small group of humans to get to a truth.

Humans rely on believing in the small group of humans called scientists to get to the truth that black holes exist. They don't any evidence before believing so.

Humans rely on believing in the small group of humans called reporters to get to the truth of what are happening in this world on a daily basis.

Humans rely on believing in the small group of humans called historians to get to the truth of what might have happened in history. History can hardly be evidenced, especially those older than 2000 years. Or show us which chapter of which book is supported by evidence.

Similarly, shall there be any truth in religious claims, the one way to reach such a truth is by putting faith in those humans thought to be in direct contact of the truth itself.


Get back to reality!

Last edited by Hawkins; 04-11-2016 at 08:35 AM..
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,920 posts, read 9,678,093 times
Reputation: 2405
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Almost no one, certainly not educated people, would serve a god with no evidence.
There is no evidence. That is why you are instructed to believe on faith. Faith is believing without evidence. If there was evidence you wouldn't need to rely on faith would you? Faith is obsolete in the face of evidence.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:59 PM
 
7,721 posts, read 3,425,253 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
There is no evidence. That is why you are instructed to believe on faith. Faith is believing without evidence. If there was evidence you wouldn't need to rely on faith would you? Faith is obsolete in the face of evidence.
There is no evidence to 100% prove anything beyond any possible questioning. People doubt that we really landed on the moon, for instance.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,261 posts, read 14,140,123 times
Reputation: 10126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Faith is obsolete in the face of evidence.

Well not exactly... this is not made up in thin air. I can't say that I was electrocuted last week and came back to life. There are no witnesses and no surrounding evidence to make my story believable.


No one doubts that Jesus lived on the earth. There are written accounts of people who saw Him raised up from the dead. So even though I live 2000 years after the event and I see no physical evidence - there is enough basic semblance of evidence that SOMETHING took place regarding Jesus being raised from the dead back then.

I posted in the politics area about a guy in the UK who came up with the Islamophobia term. He had faith that Muslims would integrate into the mainstream like other immigrants from other countries. 20 years later - he says he is totally wrong. What happened? He had faith in his assertion? The evidence that continued to mount proved his theory as false.


For believers, it's more than the resurrection - it's that Jesus still lives today and He lives in us. We have an internal relationship with Him... as He promised for those who come to Him by faith. So it's not that we solely believe in the resurrection 2,000 years ago and that's it. It's a continuing relationship with Him that strengthens our faith in what took place back then.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:20 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,239 posts, read 8,257,217 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
There is no evidence. That is why you are instructed to believe on faith. Faith is believing without evidence. If there was evidence you wouldn't need to rely on faith would you? Faith is obsolete in the face of evidence.
Wrong. Even though we've never seen God (faith comes in here), there is enough evidence to support a belief in a creator.
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