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Firstfruits means that you have just died and given birth to a new son you have raised, ....
You left out the most relevant reference in your list of verses. Galatians Chapter 3, most importantly verses 10-29
Arguing with unrepentant pre-tribbers is a waste of time. They are dispensationalists. They care more about the teachings of men than they do sound doctrine. Everything they believe has to be skewed away from the truth to fit their new doctrine. So naturally they don't understand how any Christians could be in the 144,000. So naturally they don't understand how Christians could be part of Israel or are among the "true Jews" talked about in the NT, because they think that they will all fly away to heaven to relax while all the other less-worthy believers get to deal with the anti-Christ. I guess there's a second rapture for them some time later.
Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 04-13-2016 at 11:26 PM..
The 144,000 were saved to the Lamb by the law of God as they were not defiled with women from Revelation 14:4...............Christians who come from gentles and Jews are not under the law and where saved directly by being born again to the righteousness of Jesus Christ who was born of the tribe of Judah, then who adopts them to God by His sacrifice of Judgment ......From Revelation 14:12-13....Here is the patience of the saints here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus ............. This 144,000 is Not a literal number , as Jesus sacrifice is worthy to save much more who will come
Ah yes... not a literal number, so obvious the other 12,000 from each tribe must not be literal either.
You must be a pretribber, because this sounds like another way to fit the 4 square gospel into a doctrine that doesn't look to be a square hole.
Ah yes... not a literal number, so obvious the other 12,000 from each tribe must not be literal either.
You must be a pretribber, because this sounds like another way to fit the 4 square gospel into a doctrine that doesn't look to be a square hole.
Tribber?
The Tribulation is about you and when you will come up to your days, to your days of walking in your prophesy.
Each generation has a chance to walk in the trib.
To overcome.
There is a 7 year covenant and you have 42 months of walking in the flesh until you can symbolically go all the way to death in dying daily, and then coming up to Rosh Hashanah, the day no man knows.
If you make it, if you overcome and go all the way to death, then you will begin your last 3 and a half years. You will be given strength and stood up on your feet.
It isn't about an end of the world, it is about you personally, and your 7 years.
The Messiah has 7 feast days and he has his own Sabbaths, traditions and rituals that teach of him.
Do you really know Messiah?
The Jews do, and they actually prove what they believe with their own hands. One person says he believes in Messiah but he rejects Jerusalem and the feast days appointed for the king of Jerusalem. He appoints another Holy place all to his own and he calls the Torah a strange thing standing against all that is of God.
Then you have the Jews who actually keep the Sabbaths feasts, traditions and rituals of Messiah that teach who he literally is.
Why would you think that you know Messiah more than the Jews when the Jews are the ones who keep the ways of God, his commandments and the feasts made for his sons?
Gentiles converted to Judaism, do you know this?
Jesus and his disciples didn't come teaching pagan ways, they did not come teaching against Torah and if one of them had, then they were deserving of a sinner's death and they are false prophets and anti Christ who try and turn the children of Israel against the commandments of God and God's appointed ways.
Should a Jew join you in your lawlessness when Jews are demanded to keep the laws forever?
Should a Jew convert to your ways of Babylon and then reject the ways of Jerusalem, the feasts of the king of Jerusalem?
Jesus came to make two men one, but one man has left the other and I don't speak of Jews, but Gentiles who left their first love.
Gentiles converted to Judaism, and Jesus did not come teaching the Holy days of the Messiah of Babylon, but how could you hope that a Jew would believe you and then abandon God to follow your ways which are against God, against Israel, against Jews?
A gentile would have a Jew abandon Judaism to take on pagan practices and then teach him to call the Torah a strange thing.
I would say that the gentile who does this should really think of what he is doing because there were many like him before him, Antiochus Epiphanies for one.
They come to change the times and seasons so that the children of God do not know the appointed visitation days of their God.
You would recommend that a Jew should believe as you and follow Messiah as you do in Babylonian feasts and Sabbaths, and the Jew should call the Torah a strange thing when God has demanded that he keep it?
God, made at minimum 5 covenants throughout his written word. Jesus, the one sent by God brought a new covenant( to Israel) they outright rejected the messiah and the new covenant. Jehovah witnesses have 0 to do with Babylonian feasts and Sabbaths. We live under the new covenant brought forth by Jesus the Messiah.
You are missing the part where G-d says that He has always reserved a remnant of Israel...
Those reserved then are the ones who left the Israelite religion and followed Jesus, like Peter, Mark , Matthew etc--all of those back then were apart of the 144,000.
When Israel was in Gods favor--no one on earth could defeat them. Jesus foretold 70 ad to them, and God was not with them, and to this day--they reject Jesus, the one sent forth by God to them. They are cut off.
Those reserved then are the ones who left the Israelite religion and followed Jesus, like Peter, Mark , Matthew etc--all of those back then were apart of the 144,000.
When Israel was in Gods favor--no one on earth could defeat them. Jesus foretold 70 ad to them, and God was not with them, and to this day--they reject Jesus, the one sent forth by God to them. They are cut off.
God foretold their punishment and then he foretold the last Exodus when he strengthens Israel, and he calls them back to Israel where many gentiles have taken part in helping them return. Whatever punishment they may have bore, they are being gathered back to Israel right now as a sign and a witness that God has chosen them again.
He brings them back and they are no longer weak, they are more impressive in strength than America is.
Bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel.
Bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel.
The call of Abram in Genesis 12:3 does not reference "Israel".
The Lord had said to Abram,
“Go from your country, your people and your father’s household
to the land I will show you.
“I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”
Those reserved then are the ones who left the Israelite religion and followed Jesus, like Peter, Mark , Matthew etc--all of those back then were apart of the 144,000.
When Israel was in Gods favor--no one on earth could defeat them. Jesus foretold 70 ad to them, and God was not with them, and to this day--they reject Jesus, the one sent forth by God to them. They are cut off.
Yeah...No such thing as spiritual Israel...You can't prove it...
God foretold their punishment and then he foretold the last Exodus when he strengthens Israel, and he calls them back to Israel where many gentiles have taken part in helping them return. Whatever punishment they may have bore, they are being gathered back to Israel right now as a sign and a witness that God has chosen them again.
He brings them back and they are no longer weak, they are more impressive in strength than America is.
Bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel.
God is with 0 who reject his son.
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