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Old 04-12-2016, 12:41 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,171 posts, read 8,240,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
All His instructions were to the individual. In todays world there are two kins of individuals, those who prefer to give voluntarily, and those who prefer to extract the money through taxation from people be they willing or unwiling.
Our liberal friends are quick to point out (when it suits them) that we are NOT a Christian nation.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,518 posts, read 31,902,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Our liberal friends are quick to point out (when it suits them) that we are NOT a Christian nation.
It depends on how you define 'Christian nation'. If collecting taxes is a Christian thing to do, then we must be a Christian nation. We collect taxes, do we not?
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,552 posts, read 7,007,722 times
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Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Yes, I did reply.
Missed it. Postt #41. My bad. Did you ever answer my question about comparisons from around 1950 and the present? It's ok, Warden pretty well covered it.

Last edited by nateswift; 04-12-2016 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
I should also point out that one of the other characteristics of liberal theology is that it generally will not claim that the Bible as received is free from error, even serious error, thus avoiding all the hoops that conservativew theologians have to negotiate to come up with a unified theology that incorporates the whole Bible.

With that in mind, I need to find a subject that won't derail the thread, AND the scriptural basis of which is agreed. That may be hard. Let me think about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I would agree. My concern with that though, is how one decides what is and isn't inspired? Many liberal theologians use that mindset to then teach whatever seems good, or right, and Scripture has little to no authority over them or their faith.


Good enough.
Perhaps that question in irself would be a good example: we may agree that "inspiration" is a usable term for scripture, but disagree as to what "inspiration" means, from the recent emphasis on the literal meaning of the term Paul used In Timothy as "God breathed" to indicate a form of dictation on through the spectrum to impelling reporters to record their perceptions of God's dealings with men.

As far as deciding what is appropriate, I absolutely trist that the Bible was correct in saying that Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to be with us forever, and that the characteristics of the Spirit by which we can judge that the leading we discern actually IS of the Spirit were well delineated by Jesus and Paul. Do you believew the Bible about that?
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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That reminds me of one other characteristic of conservatives: the need for an "authorty" they canutilize to "enforce" their opinion.
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,597 posts, read 5,120,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Theologically, it's easiest to define it, I believe in contrast with "liberal". Liberal theology is the idea that we can interpret the Scriptures according to our situation -- or that it's a "living document", meaning it can have a different meaning today than it did 2000 years ago.

Conservative theology, on the other hand, strives to ask what did the author mean by it? It does not attempt to change the meaning according to the time, place, or people involved.
No, liberal theology seeks to be a follower of Jesus. Conservative theology has killed Jesus as a human and a Teacher to turn Him into a docetic kind of Divine Being. If He is only divinity then there was no reason for Him to become human---except if your conservative theology leads you to conclude His only purpose was to be a propitiation for human sins. Which, of course, is pretty much the NT understanding of conservative theology. It destroys all Jesus' teachings making them at best secondary to His "real" purpose.

I agree with theologians who see Jesus' teaching as His primary mission. The Synoptics support that view. It wasn't until John that we begin to see the extraordinary attempts to make Jesus and God inseparable. I'm not challenging the truth of that conclusion, I'm challenging the fact that if Jesus were simply Divine, it would not make Him any different than dozens of "sons of God" throughout that time frame. One of the early denari recovered states "Tiberius, Son of the Divine Augustus"---a son of a god.

Celsius was not disturbed by the claim of Jesus' virgin birth (another attribute given to many), but he was very disturbed that a low-life peasant could be thought of as divine:

" Taking its root in the lower classes, the religion continues to spread among the vulgar; nay, one can even say it spreads because of its vulgarity and the illiteracy of its adherents. And while there are a few moderate, reasonable, and intelligent people who are inclined to interpret its beliefs allegorically, yet it thrives in its purer form among the ignorant." (John Dominic Crossan, Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography (San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1994), pp. 27-28)

It was, for Celsius, an affront to be considered divine which was for the rich and privileged. The fact that Jesus came to us in a "low-life" family, from Nazareth which was as low-life among Jews as one could get, and he had followers who were mostly ignorant fishermen. How much more human can we get?

Yet Jesus' humanity is discarded in favor of divinity, because we can worship the divine without ever being challenged by the teaching of the human.

I believe it was St. Iraneous who wrote: “The Glory of God is a human being fully alive.”
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:57 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,587 posts, read 22,744,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Our liberal friends are quick to point out (when it suits them) that we are NOT a Christian nation.
We are not a christian nation..we have christian institutions, but we do not have christian government. If gittb wanted that he would give us a KING.
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Old 04-12-2016, 04:28 PM
 
8,594 posts, read 11,890,813 times
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We used to be more of a Christian nation (Christian in the good sense) when our taxes were much higher in the previous century. People as a whole were more charitable. They built hospitals and founded charities.

There was also LESS crime with all of those high taxes and higher relative minimum wage. Hmm...

People should look forward to paying taxes since they know this is done to help those in need. I like paying taxes. Although I would prefer major cuts to the military.
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Old 04-12-2016, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,518 posts, read 31,902,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It depends on how you define 'Christian nation'. If collecting taxes is a Christian thing to do, then we must be a Christian nation. We collect taxes, do we not?
But of course it is absurd to argue high taxes makes a country a 'Christian nation'. US can be called a Christian nation because it was shaped by Christianity.
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Old 04-12-2016, 04:56 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,356,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
US can be called a Christian nation because it was shaped by Christianity.
And California can be called Catholic state because it was shaped by Catholicism.

As is evidenced by the fact that every 4th grader enrolled in a public school builds a mission.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 04-12-2016 at 05:05 PM..
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