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Old 04-11-2016, 08:56 PM
 
10,187 posts, read 10,555,957 times
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GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was placed in a tomb with the wicked


New International Version
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,


New American Standard Bible
His grave was assigned with wicked men,


So which is it; was Jesus buried alone or was he buried with wicked men as per Isaiah?
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:03 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
6,925 posts, read 4,305,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was placed in a tomb with the wicked


New International Version
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,


New American Standard Bible
His grave was assigned with wicked men,


So which is it; was Jesus buried alone or was he buried with wicked men as per Isaiah?
This is an easy gymnastic. His 3 day grave was assigned NEXT ("with") to normal ("wicked") men.

"He has done no violence" would mean that buying and fomenting the buying of weapons is considered "nonviolent." Making whips and chasing currency exchangers from working near the Temple was considered "nonviolent" too it seems, by these religious human standards.

Even the prophecies about the Messiah bringing peace and unity were not met. Nor were there any prophecies suggesting that those that didn't believe in the Messiah as being God himself (or having been chosen in Earth at all) would somehow loose grace with Yahweh.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
This is an easy gymnastic. His 3 day grave was assigned NEXT ("with") to normal ("wicked") men.

"He has done no violence" would mean that buying and fomenting the buying of weapons is considered "nonviolent." Making whips and chasing currency exchangers from working near the Temple was considered "nonviolent" too it seems, by these religious human standards.

Even the prophecies about the Messiah bringing peace and unity were not met. Nor were there any prophecies suggesting that those that didn't believe in the Messiah as being God himself (or having been chosen in Earth at all) would somehow loose grace with Yahweh.

For me the prophecy should play out just as it was written:


"He was placed in a tomb with the wicked"


At the very least Jesus should have been buried with the two thieves. But to be buried alone is a total violation of the words, bald faced as they appear.


Truth is Roman law would have forbad Jesus from even being buried as he was crucified as a common criminal and enemy of Rome. Such a status would have assured his body had to have been left to rot on the cross while the birds fed on him.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:33 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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In reality, the passage is obviously not about Jesus but about whatever King was being honored by the Royal-payed "prophet" Isaiah.
Quote:
53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed (usually children, but it is a weak vague language), he shall prolong his days (usually that would mean in Earthly Life in order to educate), and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge (not his blood??) shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
It was a king who was ugly and sick ("afflicted") because he was growing up in a "dry"(unrighteous) society (like always). But he was still humble (quiet) and supported the religion.

Did God bruise himself and please himself because of it?
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:40 AM
 
7,866 posts, read 6,673,377 times
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``And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death , because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth ``...............he was numbered with the transgressors ..................See the wicked jealous leaders put Jesus down , as their sin was envy , but Jesus was numbered with the transgressors , meaning that Jesus ordered his disciples to buy two swords , which made Jesus numbered with the transgressors , so then Jesus would be equal with the people He would redeem of sin ........... See there is nothing failed with this Prophecy as Jesus did no violence and had no deceit , and had miracles beyond measure and the leaders went jealous, as Jesus made his grave though them ...........But still God raised Jesus up later
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Old 04-12-2016, 05:43 AM
 
Location: US
26,291 posts, read 13,944,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was placed in a tomb with the wicked


New International Version
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,


New American Standard Bible
His grave was assigned with wicked men,


So which is it; was Jesus buried alone or was he buried with wicked men as per Isaiah?
You forgot to list the Torah...
Isaiah 53:
9 And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:17 AM
 
10,187 posts, read 10,555,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
``And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death , because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth ``...............he was numbered with the transgressors ..................See the wicked jealous leaders put Jesus down , as their sin was envy , but Jesus was numbered with the transgressors , meaning that Jesus ordered his disciples to buy two swords , which made Jesus numbered with the transgressors , so then Jesus would be equal with the people He would redeem of sin ........... See there is nothing failed with this Prophecy as Jesus did no violence and had no deceit , and had miracles beyond measure and the leaders went jealous, as Jesus made his grave though them ...........But still God raised Jesus up later

The words are clear: "he was buried with the wicked" At the very least Jesus' body should have been placed with at least one other body of a wicked person, mostly likely one of the thieves. But he wasn't. He was buried alone. This makes the prophecy a failed prophecy.


Remember, if even one OT prophecy attributed to Jesus fails he cannot be the Messiah nor be divine.


Christians have a horrible time twisting and turning OT verses upside down in order to try to make them fit Jesus' life without much success to most people who can see clearly without any Christian bias. Josh MacDowell is one of these apologists who try to pass off 350 OT verses as being prophecies that Jesus fulfilled but it is clear beyond any shadow of doubt to anyone reading the verse that Jesus was not buried with the wicked as the "prophecy" demands. If you want to admit this is not a Messianic prophecy then fine; we'll skip it.


By the way,


"...there is no textual evidence for the town [of Arimathea] outside the gospels, and no archaeological evidence exists as well. The town was imaginary. This explains why Luke 23:51 calls it a “Jewish town” since no one had ever heard of it before. The name Arimathea can be translated as “Best Disciple Town” so clearly the place did not exist. It is too consequential for a disciple of Jesus to be from a town named “Best Disciple Town."
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:42 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,984,198 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was placed in a tomb with the wicked


New International Version
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,


New American Standard Bible
His grave was assigned with wicked men,


So which is it; was Jesus buried alone or was he buried with wicked men as per Isaiah?
He was in a rich man's borrowed tomb, but he was also rejected and crucified a horrible sinner's death. He was executed with criminals -- with wicked people. He was rejected and buried as a criminal.

Honestly...this is yet another of your attacks. I'm used to it.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:23 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,252,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
He was in a rich man's borrowed tomb, but he was also rejected and crucified a horrible sinner's death. He was executed with criminals -- with wicked people. He was rejected and buried as a criminal.

Honestly...this is yet another of your attacks. I'm used to it.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Vizio again." You get the idea!
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:27 PM
 
10,187 posts, read 10,555,957 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
He was in a rich man's borrowed tomb, but he was also rejected and crucified a horrible sinner's death. He was executed with criminals -- with wicked people. He was rejected and buried as a criminal.

Honestly...this is yet another of your attacks. I'm used to it.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Vizio again." You get the idea!

What I get is that you tried to rep Vizio for giving essentially a non-answer yet again and the system didn't let you reward him for wasted responses.
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