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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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There are arguably scriptures about the prophecies of Jesus' death from the old Testament.
However, every successful sacrifice in the Old Testament was a burnt offering, and the Hebrew word used to describe the burnt offerings literally meant, to be carried away, up in smoke. There was literally nothing left, so why would Jesus' resurrection after his death not have negated the sacrifice. For it to count, according to Old Testament law, there should be nothing left but ashes.
There are arguably scriptures about the prophecies of Jesus' death from the old Testament.
However, every successful sacrifice in the Old Testament was a burnt offering, and the Hebrew word used to describe the burnt offerings literally meant, to be carried away, up in smoke. There was literally nothing left, so why would Jesus' resurrection after his death not have negated the sacrifice. For it to count, according to Old Testament law, there should be nothing left but ashes.
A conundrum?
The Levitical animal sacrifices were simply types or pictures, and a graphic reminder of the work that Jesus would later do on the cross. They weren't meant to be a perfect type. The animal sacrifices could only cover sin and had to be repeated. Jesus' once for all sacrifice actually paid the penalty for our sins and put an end to the need for the animal sacrifices. The animal sacrifices took place on an alter. Jesus' sacrifice was on a cross. But it wasn't even Jesus' physical death that paid the penalty for our sins. It was His spiritual death while He was still physically alive that paid the penalty. Jesus was still physically alive when He said, 'It has been finished.'
John 19:30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It has been finished (Perfect tense)!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
The Greek Perfect tense refers to action completed in the past with the results continuing on in full effect. That's why the proper translation is 'It has been finished.' When Jesus said, 'It has been finished', or 'accomplished,' our sins had all been paid for once for all, therefore removing them as an issue, as a barrier between God and man. The issue instead is whether or not a person will place his faith in the finished redemptive work of Christ.
Jesus was on the cross from around 9 a.m. until 3 p.m. Around noontime, God caused a supernatural darkness to occur. It was at this time, until 3 p.m. that the perfect relationship that Jesus had always had with the Father was broken. It was the severance of this relationship with the Father that was Jesus' spiritual death. And it was this that satisfied the righteous demands of the Father regarding sin. Since the penalty for sin was spiritual death, Jesus' death had to be a spiritual death in order to pay the penalty. And it is because Jesus is also God that His death as a man had infinite worth. Jesus didn't die spiritually as God, but as a man. Because His spiritual death was of infinite value, Jesus' spiritual death accomplished in three hours what fallen mankind could never pay.
Man owes God perfect righteousness. Once sin occurred in the human race, mankind's fallen nature could never have the perfect righteousness which God requires in order to have an eternal relationship with Him. Since Jesus was without sin, His human nature was acceptable to God. When any person simply places his faith in Christ Jesus God imputes or credits the perfect righteousness of Jesus to that person and he is pronounced justified.
Jesus died physically after having accomplished the work for our salvation both because He could not return to heaven in His mortal body, and because Jesus had to be the first fruits of those who are to be resurrected and who belong to Him.
There are arguably scriptures about the prophecies of Jesus' death from the old Testament.
However, every successful sacrifice in the Old Testament was a burnt offering, and the Hebrew word used to describe the burnt offerings literally meant, to be carried away, up in smoke. There was literally nothing left, so why would Jesus' resurrection after his death not have negated the sacrifice. For it to count, according to Old Testament law, there should be nothing left but ashes.
A conundrum?
Because they were ignorant barbarians and their blood sacrifice nonsense never was desired by God and certainly did not apply to Christ's sacrifice at the hands of our brutal savage ancestors. Christ was not a burnt offering or any other kind of offering to God. It was an achievement that NONE of us could accomplish - perfect agape love despite horrendous scourging and crucifixion. He even loved His torturers and murderers because they knew not what they did. He was our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam. He smote no one to reveal the TRUE NATURE of God.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
The Levitical animal sacrifices were simply types or pictures, and a graphic reminder of the work that Jesus would later do on the cross. They weren't meant to be a perfect type. The animal sacrifices could only cover sin and had to be repeated. Jesus' once for all sacrifice actually paid the penalty for our sins and put an end to the need for the animal sacrifices. The animal sacrifices took place on an alter. Jesus' sacrifice was on a cross. But it wasn't even Jesus' physical death that paid the penalty for our sins. It was His spiritual death while He was still physically alive that paid the penalty. Jesus was still physically alive when He said, 'It has been finished.'
John 19:30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It has been finished (Perfect tense)!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
The Greek Perfect tense refers to action completed in the past with the results continuing on in full effect. That's why the proper translation is 'It has been finished.' When Jesus said, 'It has been finished', or 'accomplished,' our sins had all been paid for once for all, therefore removing them as an issue, as a barrier between God and man. The issue instead is whether or not a person will place his faith in the finished redemptive work of Christ.
Jesus was on the cross from around 9 a.m. until 3 p.m. Around noontime, God caused a supernatural darkness to occur. It was at this time, until 3 p.m. that the perfect relationship that Jesus had always had with the Father was broken. It was the severance of this relationship with the Father that was Jesus' spiritual death. And it was this that satisfied the righteous demands of the Father regarding sin. Since the penalty for sin was spiritual death, Jesus' death had to be a spiritual death in order to pay the penalty. And it is because Jesus is also God that His death as a man had infinite worth. Jesus didn't die spiritually as God, but as a man. Because His spiritual death was of infinite value, Jesus' spiritual death accomplished in three hours what fallen mankind could never pay.
Man owes God perfect righteousness. Once sin occurred in the human race, mankind's fallen nature could never have the perfect righteousness which God requires in order to have an eternal relationship with Him. Since Jesus was without sin, His human nature was acceptable to God. When any person simply places his faith in Christ Jesus God imputes or credits the perfect righteousness of Jesus to that person and he is pronounced justified.
Jesus died physically after having accomplished the work for our salvation both because He could not return to heaven in His mortal body, and because Jesus had to be the first fruits of those who are to be resurrected and who belong to Him.
None of this answers the question of that the sacrifice, to be properly understood, was done to a Jew, by Jews in a manner that did not comply with the Jewish parameters of what had to happen to be a proper sacrifice. Please try and answer this directly.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Because they were ignorant barbarians and their blood sacrifice nonsense never was desired by God and certainly did not apply to Christ's sacrifice at the hands of our brutal savage ancestors. Christ was not a burnt offering or any other kind of offering to God. It was an achievement that NONE of us could accomplish - perfect agape love despite horrendous scourging and crucifixion. He even loved His torturers and murderers because they knew not what they did. He was our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam. He smote no one to reveal the TRUE NATURE of God.
Except the OT defines of how a sacrifice needs to be performed to be valid. I don't see how one can make the argument that the prophecies of the OT were complied with in the manner that the Jews understood of what a sacrifice was.
There are arguably scriptures about the prophecies of Jesus' death from the old Testament.
However, every successful sacrifice in the Old Testament was a burnt offering, and the Hebrew word used to describe the burnt offerings literally meant, to be carried away, up in smoke. There was literally nothing left, so why would Jesus' resurrection after his death not have negated the sacrifice. For it to count, according to Old Testament law, there should be nothing left but ashes.
A conundrum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
The Levitical animal sacrifices were simply types or pictures, and a graphic reminder of the work that Jesus would later do on the cross. They weren't meant to be a perfect type. The animal sacrifices could only cover sin and had to be repeated. Jesus' once for all sacrifice actually paid the penalty for our sins and put an end to the need for the animal sacrifices. The animal sacrifices took place on an alter. Jesus' sacrifice was on a cross. But it wasn't even Jesus' physical death that paid the penalty for our sins. It was His spiritual death while He was still physically alive that paid the penalty. Jesus was still physically alive when He said, 'It has been finished.'
John 19:30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It has been finished (Perfect tense)!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
The Greek Perfect tense refers to action completed in the past with the results continuing on in full effect. That's why the proper translation is 'It has been finished.' When Jesus said, 'It has been finished', or 'accomplished,' our sins had all been paid for once for all, therefore removing them as an issue, as a barrier between God and man. The issue instead is whether or not a person will place his faith in the finished redemptive work of Christ.
Jesus was on the cross from around 9 a.m. until 3 p.m. Around noontime, God caused a supernatural darkness to occur. It was at this time, until 3 p.m. that the perfect relationship that Jesus had always had with the Father was broken. It was the severance of this relationship with the Father that was Jesus' spiritual death. And it was this that satisfied the righteous demands of the Father regarding sin. Since the penalty for sin was spiritual death, Jesus' death had to be a spiritual death in order to pay the penalty. And it is because Jesus is also God that His death as a man had infinite worth. Jesus didn't die spiritually as God, but as a man. Because His spiritual death was of infinite value, Jesus' spiritual death accomplished in three hours what fallen mankind could never pay.
Man owes God perfect righteousness. Once sin occurred in the human race, mankind's fallen nature could never have the perfect righteousness which God requires in order to have an eternal relationship with Him. Since Jesus was without sin, His human nature was acceptable to God. When any person simply places his faith in Christ Jesus God imputes or credits the perfect righteousness of Jesus to that person and he is pronounced justified.
Jesus died physically after having accomplished the work for our salvation both because He could not return to heaven in His mortal body, and because Jesus had to be the first fruits of those who are to be resurrected and who belong to Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
None of this answers the question of that the sacrifice, to be properly understood, was done to a Jew, by Jews in a manner that did not comply with the Jewish parameters of what had to happen to be a proper sacrifice. Please try and answer this directly.
Actually, I did directly answer the question you posed. And I took great care to explain it as simply and as clearly as possible. Again, the animal sacrifices were simply a shadow of the reality to come which was Jesus' sacrifice. They simply pointed to the future sacrifice of Jesus. No, Jesus didn't have to be burned up in smoke in order for His sacrifice to be efficacious. The animal sacrifices were not an exact analogy of Jesus' sacrifice. If they had been then Jesus would have had to have been sacrificed on an altar as the animals were, and it would have been His physical death that paid for our sins. But as I told you, it wasn't His physical death that paid the penalty for our sins. It was His spiritual death. The phrase, 'the blood of Christ' doesn't refer to His actual blood, but is a synonym for His spiritual death but relates it to the Levitical sacifices. But again, it is not an exact analogy.
The animals couldn't die spiritually. They could only be put to physical death and therefore could not be an exact representation of the sacrifice that Jesus would make.
Because they were ignorant barbarians and their blood sacrifice nonsense never was desired by God and certainly did not apply to Christ's sacrifice at the hands of our brutal savage ancestors. Christ was not a burnt offering or any other kind of offering to God. It was an achievement that NONE of us could accomplish - perfect agape love despite horrendous scourging and crucifixion. He even loved His torturers and murderers because they knew not what they did. He was our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam. He smote no one to reveal the TRUE NATURE of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
Except the OT defines of how a sacrifice needs to be performed to be valid. I don't see how one can make the argument that the prophecies of the OT were complied with in the manner that the Jews understood of what a sacrifice was.
What do you NOT comprehend about the ancestral Jews being ignorant, barbaric savages, cupper??? How on earth could they be relied upon to accurately know what God actually wanted?? That is also why they missed Jesus. In their ignorance, they were looking for the wrong kind of Messiah!
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
What do you NOT comprehend about the ancestral Jews being ignorant, barbaric savages, cupper??? How on earth could they be relied upon to accurately know what God actually wanted?? That is also why they missed Jesus. In their ignorance, they were looking for the wrong kind of Messiah!
I have no problem understanding that we are dealing with an unsophisticated tribe, but that is not the issue. The story we keep hearing is how the prophesies of the OT are clear, and as such need to be fulfilled for them to be validated.
But that means fulfilled in the manner that THEY understood what they meant, not what 21st century individuals view it as, or for that matter, 4 century ones. What you are suggesting is that the entire OT be disregarded and not considered in the whole Jesus story.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Actually, I did directly answer the question you posed. And I took great care to explain it as simply and as clearly as possible. Again, the animal sacrifices were simply a shadow of the reality to come which was Jesus' sacrifice. They simply pointed to the future sacrifice of Jesus. No, Jesus didn't have to be burned up in smoke in order for His sacrifice to be efficacious. The animal sacrifices were not an exact analogy of Jesus' sacrifice. If they had been then Jesus would have had to have been sacrificed on an altar as the animals were, and it would have been His physical death that paid for our sins. But as I told you, it wasn't His physical death that paid the penalty for our sins. It was His spiritual death. The phrase, 'the blood of Christ' doesn't refer to His actual blood, but is a synonym for His spiritual death but relates it to the Levitical sacifices. But again, it is not an exact analogy.
The animals couldn't die spiritually. They could only be put to physical death and therefore could not be an exact representation of the sacrifice that Jesus would make.
How should someone who literally interprets the bible look at it? You are suggesting a metaphorical perspective. So if everything is metaphorical or allegorical, then it becomes a interpretation issue, and not an orthodox perspective.
What do you NOT comprehend about the ancestral Jews being ignorant, barbaric savages, cupper??? How on earth could they be relied upon to accurately know what God actually wanted?? That is also why they missed Jesus. In their ignorance, they were looking for the wrong kind of Messiah!
Gee Mystic, are all of our ancestors from this time ignorant, barbaric, savages, or just the Jews? Your anti-semitism might be showing just a little bit.
And again, for the thousandth time, Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. They weren't looking for the "wrong kind" of Messiah, they knew exactly what they were looking for.
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