Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The evidence for my faith in God is creation itself.
Your unbelief has blinded you and God has thrown you into a state of further confusion.
I'm curious, what evidence does that provide? What is your definition of faith since the Bible states that its the evidence of things not seen. If you can see the creation, how can it be used as evidence for faith?
quote=First24;44492275]The evidence for my faith in God is creation itself. [/quote]That is a contradiction. If you have evidence then faith is redundant. If you have faith, evidence is not required. There is no evidence for 'creation'. That is why you mind-controllers demand that you have faith.
Quote:
Your unbelief has blinded you and God has thrown you into a state of further confusion.
I'm curious, what evidence does that provide? What is your definition of faith since the Bible states that its the evidence of things not seen. If you can see the creation, how can it be used as evidence for faith?
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. -Romans 1:20
quote=First24;44492275]The evidence for my faith in God is creation itself. That is a contradiction. If you have evidence then faith is redundant. If you have faith, evidence is not required. There is no evidence for 'creation'. That is why you mind-controllers demand that you have faith.
Au contraire. Quite the opposite.
You apparently have no faith. Of course you wouldn't understand.
......
The reader should note that prior to the beginning of the 19th century, there was virtually no argument against the justice of eternal punishment. Every religion on the planet has a concept of everlasting justice in one form or another. .....
4,000 years of wrong ideas is no recommendation. The issue IS justice and whether reaping what we sow is justice and going beyond that to infinite punishment for finite faults becomes INjustice.
The issue isn't eternal punishment so much as it is a feeble attempt to escape justice, to deny one's own sin and formulate an excuse for wickedness.
God isn't fair, but He is just. A just God who created the admirable universe mentioned above cannot justify actions that subvert that same universe. Humanity will not be allowed to contradict the laws of time and eternity just because we can. The issue is justice, not license to sin.
The reader should note that prior to the beginning of the 19th century, there was virtually no argument against the justice of eternal punishment. Every religion on the planet has a concept of everlasting justice in one form or another. But something very strange began to happen to western Christendom in the early 19 century. We began to turn away from God and to even deny His existance altogether.
If you can't kill Him on the cross, then you can try mental gymnastics and claim He doesn't exist at all. The attempt is illogical and faulty, but that doesn't stop a lot of folks from trying. Whoever said sin was logical?
Attempts to shift guilt always hit the frustration of a dead end. Nobody has a license to sin. The grave awaits and nothing changes after death. If a man refuses to acknowledge God's will in his life during his life, then nothing can be done to change the situation after life's end. Nothing. The Bible is virtually clear on the issue that things do not change in eternity. At the point of death, one's fate is literally set in stone.
God is not willing for any to die the second death and has provided an escape in the person of His son Jesus. Surrender to Him and make peace with God while you can. Time is short and who knows that a quick end may meet any of us very soon.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
If you think everyone who thinks eternal torture (as a price for what really amounts to a single sin if you believe in original sin) is lunacy is really just trying to "find an excuse to sin" and "escape any form of justice for their wrongs" then you are as crazy as the people blowing themselves up for all to get some virgin action in the afterlife...and actually there have been many people thinking long before the 19th century which you would know with a little research...it wasn't as big of a thing because most people didn't have much education on history or justice and were often under psychotic rulers who would have them tortured for stealing a loaf of bread regardless of whether they were starving so they didn't exactly have much to compare to or the time to do it since most of them were simple but busy farmers...plus the fact that they were probably so indoctrinated that they were too brainwashed or to scared (like you most likely) by God or by the Church (who would quickly burn them at the stake for heresy) to really look at their beliefs objectivity.
Anyways, the point is that when all factors we know about theology and Gods creation design along with his power and knowledge compared to ours are taken into account, the ETer doctrine amounts to a father sending his his 4 year old child away for eternal torutrefor stealing a cookie. Maybe most people a few hundred years ago didn't figure out that that is beyond psychotic but they are today and its about freakin time. Sadly, for your side, the whole "God works in Mysterious ways" excuse for this horrendous doctrine started losing its usefulness once people started to realize that ISIS and other religious terrorist groups probably tell their members the same thing when they ask the same questions....so um...Holler?
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. -Romans 1:20
Yup. And eternal torment isn't a pretty thing, and Im Sure god will do it, but really doesn't WANT to, its just what other deities do to ppl. You reap what you sow. Eternal torment isn't justifiable for any reason, but god as judge does what he had to do.
It is fact--only teachers that do not know God teach eternal torment. With the true Gods justice scales applied, its an impossibility for eternal torment to be truth. His justice( deut 32:9) is uncorruptable, he taught all what perfect justice entails-- an eye for an eye. a perfect balance on Gods justice scales. Lets apply those scales to find reality
On one side 70-90 years of unrepented sin--- on the other side trillions x trillions x trillions of years of eternal punishment.
See any balance--No. A false teaching by those who do not have God.
The teachings in the NT were symbolism for the value of what is lost by those destroyed in the lake of fire. As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those miss each new day eternally. And this teaching on the matter proves it is symbolism, it says-- The place where the worm dieth not. There isn't a worm in existence that could live more than 15 minutes in a hot firey place, the reality is 6 feet under is where the worm dieth not.
It is fact--only teachers that do not know God teach eternal torment. With the true Gods justice scales applied, its an impossibility for eternal torment to be truth. His justice( deut 32:9) is uncorruptable, he taught all what perfect justice entails-- an eye for an eye. a perfect balance on Gods justice scales. Lets apply those scales to find reality
On one side 70-90 years of unrepented sin--- on the other side trillions x trillions x trillions of years of eternal punishment.
See any balance--No. A false teaching by those who do not have God.
The teachings in the NT were symbolism for the value of what is lost by those destroyed in the lake of fire. As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those miss each new day eternally. And this teaching on the matter proves it is symbolism, it says-- The place where the worm dieth not. There isn't a worm in existence that could live more than 15 minutes in a hot firey place, the reality is 6 feet under is where the worm dieth not.
You have listened to the wrong teachers.
You're "balancing" the wrong things. Unrepented sin vs. an eternal holy God.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
