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Quite far indeed from the fantasy many like to construct in order to flatter themselves.
You mean like those that give themselves special titles the Apostles never used and Jesus condemned, wear special garb, that the Apostles never wore thus exalting themselves as "special", incorporate pagan teachings and practices that the Apostles never did, make their own traditions equal to scripture which Jesus condemned and the Apostles did not do, obey secular rulers including following the decrees as to doctrine, which neither Jesus nor the Apostles did.
You mean as opposed to the 10,000+ Protestants sects so numerous in fact you really couldn't post all of them here ?
LMAO.
For the record over half that list are in full communion and identical in belief . It's like the S Baptists in America and S Baptists in Europe . Maybe different national organizations, but the same beliefs .
Many of the others, like the various Oriental Orthodox , are in communion with other OOs , so that shortens your list even more .
The verse deals with judging individuals, not religions. True Christians know the difference.
Yes, legalists are always able to twist the word of God to justify their sins.
Religions are nothing BUT people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Again I was not referring to individuals but the organization that obeyed a secular ruler (Actually many times) violating the principle Peter stated about obeying God as ruler rather than man.
These trumped up charges are much like the ones the Pharisees concocted against Jesus. But just because the churches convened the ecumenical councils at the request of Constantine it does not follow that anything was done against the words of PETER in Acts 5:29. In fact, Peter in Acts 5 was not about following secular authorities but rather about the dictates of power-mongering religious legalists like you.
That a church followed the directions of a secular leadership does not mean they therefore went against God. Your charges are hollow in the extreme and demonstrates quite clearly that your religion is all about hoarding power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Those who do not obey Jesus and follow his example are the weeds/tares and the many on the broad way.
Indeed and the weeds and goats are revealed according to Matthew 25 by whether they display any love and charity for their fellow man. All I see in you is a legalist grasping for power and control over others -- blasting away with words of judment on the most trivial things like the Pharisees complaining about Jesus healing people on the Sabbath.
You also may not have read:
1 Corinthians 13
Quote:
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
P.S. Just a reminder and to point out to any observing, I am NOT Eastern Orthodox! So this is NOT about defending my religion against the attacks of this guy. It is about defending all religion against ideologues of any kind who have to shove their absurd ways of thinking on everybody else order to make it works as tool of power.
You mean like those that give themselves special titles the Apostles never used and Jesus condemned, wear special garb, that the Apostles never wore thus exalting themselves as "special", incorporate pagan teachings and practices that the Apostles never did, make their own traditions equal to scripture which Jesus condemned and the Apostles did not do, obey secular rulers including following the decrees as to doctrine, which neither Jesus nor the Apostles did.
Yep they are flattering themselves.
No. I mean like anybody who looks at another culture or religion and judges them by the choices of their own culture and religion as if they were the measuring stick of righteousness in the world. THAT is flattering themselves beyond all bounds of shame. Wearing what you decide are "fancy" names and clothes does not come anywhere near the unbelievable arrogance of putting oneself in the judgment seat of God Himself.
But the Orthodox Church is the only one that can actually trace it's roots to Christ himself. Even non-religious historians will agree on that.
I would not go so far as to concede something like this. I simply observe that the Eastern Orthodox is ruled by the same kind of ecumenical councils that the creeds and the canon came from, and looks to be more conservative (unchanging) than anything in Western Christianity. Thus, I will concede that they have a greater claim to antiquity than any other church. And then I have also remarked on how this isn't necessarily a good thing.
All the Catholics like to claim this tracing its roots back to Peter. But not only is it not very believable, but this kind of argument from authority is vacuous in the first place. It is rather transparently about grasping for power reflecting the motivations of human beings rather than God. It seems to operate on the premise that God is absent and requires people to take up the slack. To believe that God has put his authority into the hands of sinful human beings just isn't credulous, for nothing is less trustworthy. Sola scriptura is more believable, for the written word has a bit more reliability.
I believe in a living God not a faded memory from the past -- one who is active in our lives and affairs, continuing to guide people to be reborn in their understanding, vision and practice. I believe in a God who takes no account of the boundaries that men like to make in their grasping to speak to whomever He chooses.
.......Thus, I will concede that they have a greater claim to antiquity than any other church. And then I have also remarked on how this isn't necessarily a good thing.
the whole post, but particularly this. 1800 years of doing something wrong is not a recommendation.
You mean as opposed to the 10,000+ Protestants sects so numerous in fact you really couldn't post all of them here ?
LMAO.
For the record over half that list are in full communion and identical in belief . It's like the S Baptists in America and S Baptists in Europe . Maybe different national organizations, but the same beliefs .
Many of the others, like the various Oriental Orthodox , are in communion with other OOs , so that shortens your list even more .
You really should do some research .
The EOC is just part of the division, beyond just that within itself.
No. I mean like anybody who looks at another culture or religion and judges them by the choices of their own culture and religion as if they were the measuring stick of righteousness in the world. THAT is flattering themselves beyond all bounds of shame. Wearing what you decide are "fancy" names and clothes does not come anywhere near the unbelievable arrogance of putting oneself in the judgment seat of God Himself.
No, But it shows arrogance that is not part of God's people AND it ignores Jesus' words about such spiritual titles.
KJV Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Note "Patriarch" is also the name of the head of a family, thus the "father", ignoring Jesus words.
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the whole post, but particularly this. 1800 years of doing something wrong is not a recommendation.
