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1) How do you get that? I just showed you twice where it says the gift is for ALL who are called.
2) You don't see the gifts of the SPIRIT in Corinthians???
3) No, it's not. Here are two examples for you to mull over....
John 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
Note that they were already believers, which means they had received Him, yet there was something they yet lacked, which was the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and once receiving it, true to pattern, they spoke in tongues. That's because the Spirit has a lot to say when it's finally released in a believer to speak. This is why the speaking gifts are so strongly fought against, because the Spirit can pray and things HAPPEN, there is no "wishing" something were so, the Spirit moves and speaks, and it IS so.
Also note that in the first verse we are told that the believers didn't have it yet in that instance, because they couldn't, because Yeshua was not yet glorified, and as Peter tells us in Acts 2, HE shed forth that which you now see and hear. In both cases, believers were walking around without it, but after He was glorified it was now available to the body. And since it's part of our covenant, and He's no respecter of persons, there's not one covenant for first century believers and another one for us. Peace
I had a Bible study on baptism this week which made me doubt the kind of 'Baptism in the spirit' the pentecoastal church promotes, usually right after water Baptism. But the Baptism of the Spirit is just the descending of the Holy Spirit on a believer when that person comes to faith in Christ, then there is the water baptism and the baptism of John the Bible talks about. And yes in the beginning of the Church the Baptism of the Spirit was administered to the Gentiles by the apostles, seperately from water baptism, because the Gentiles simply hadn't received the Spirit yet but were only baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's in Acts 8, but a little further on in Acts 8 there's the story of the Eunuch that came to faith and was baptised by water on the confession of faith, but no baptism in the Spirit or any extraordinary gifts the Bible speaks about. I believe the Spirit was given to that Eunuch when he came to faith, there was no seperate 'baptism in the spirit' necessary, and he went his way rejoicing.
The other account is in Acts 19, when Paul baptises in the Spirit, followers of John the Baptist who hadn't even heard about a Holy Spirit.. it was a special case, like that of Apollos, but certainly not the usual habit to baptise believers in the Spirit. I don't see Scripture saying it is the confirming sign of a true believer, or necessary for salvation, and a faithful friend of mine, an Evangelist that has been walking with the Lord much longer than I do, warned for the satanic influences that can come through trying to stimulate talking in tongues. He said it's often the same names or phrases that are being repeated, like mantra's in eastern religions, and often names of 'gods' are being chanted. Hes not saying the gifts have ceased, the gift of languages can certainly be useful when Evangelising people in an unknown language for instance. But be careful, when I see footage of people crawling on the floor like snakes, being in some strange trance, I have to wonder if this is from God? Many people are looking for the experience and open themselves up to spiritual influences that don't necessarily have to be from God, satan has alot of counterfeit. God bless!
1) How do you get that? I just showed you twice where it says the gift is for ALL who are called.
2) You don't see the gifts of the SPIRIT in Corinthians???
3) No, it's not. Here are two examples for you to mull over....
John 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
Note that they were already believers, which means they had received Him, yet there was something they yet lacked, which was the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and once receiving it, true to pattern, they spoke in tongues. That's because the Spirit has a lot to say when it's finally released in a believer to speak. This is why the speaking gifts are so strongly fought against, because the Spirit can pray and things HAPPEN, there is no "wishing" something were so, the Spirit moves and it IS so. Peace
Brother that was a special case, those 12 were Jews just as Apollos, that were believers but had a lack of knowledge. This is important to remember, they were not Gentiles and they didnt receive the full Gospel yet. It was simply an extraordinary group, and an extraordinary circumstance.. like David eating from the bread that was meanth for the Priests, it was an exception, but not the rule.
Brother that was a special case, those 12 were Jews just as Apollos, that were believers but had a lack of knowledge. This is important to remember, they were not Gentiles and they didnt receive the full Gospel yet. It was simply an extraordinary group, and an extraordinary circumstance.. like David eating from the bread that was meanth for the Priests, it was an exception, but not the rule.
Did you notice it said they were disciples? It was not a special case, they were believers who had not received. Peace
I had a Bible study on baptism this week which made me doubt the kind of 'Baptism in the spirit' the pentecoastal church promotes, usually right after water Baptism. But the Baptism of the Spirit is just the descending of the Holy Spirit on a believer when that person comes to faith in Christ, then there is the water baptism and the baptism of John the Bible talks about. And yes in the beginning of the Church the Baptism of the Spirit was administered to the Gentiles by the apostles, seperately from water baptism, because the Gentiles simply hadn't received the Spirit yet but were only baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's in Acts 8, but a little further on in Acts 8 there's the story of the Eunuch that came to faith and was baptised by water on the confession of faith, but no baptism in the Spirit or any extraordinary gifts the Bible speaks about. I believe the Spirit was given to that Eunuch when he came to faith, there was no seperate 'baptism in the spirit' necessary, and he went his way rejoicing.
The other account is in Acts 19, when Paul baptises in the Spirit, followers of John the Baptist who hadn't even heard about a Holy Spirit.. it was a special case, like that of Apollos, but certainly not the usual habit to baptise believers in the Spirit. I don't see Scripture saying it is the confirming sign of a true believer, or necessary for salvation, and a faithful friend of mine, an Evangelist that has been walking with the Lord much longer than I do, warned for the satanic influences that can come through trying to stimulate talking in tongues. He said it's often the same names or phrases that are being repeated, like mantra's in eastern religions, and often names of 'gods' are being chanted. Hes not saying the gifts have ceased, the gift of languages can certainly be useful when Evangelising people in an unknown language for instance. But be careful, when I see footage of people crawling on the floor like snakes, being in some strange trance, I have to wonder if this is from God? Many people are looking for the experience and open themselves up to spiritual influences that don't necessarily have to be from God, satan has alot of counterfeit. God bless!
If you ask G-d for an egg will He give you a snake? Fear of receiving the wrong spirit has kept many from receiving the right one, and fear is not of G-d, fear hath torment. If there was no baptism in the Holy Ghost with the gifts associated with it, then you'd need to cut Joel, Acts and Corinthians out of your bible.
I've made it very plain that the flesh loves to mimic the things of the Spirit, but that doesn't mean we should throw out the baby with the bathwater, amen? Peace
If you ask G-d for an egg will He give you a snake? Fear of receiving the wrong spirit has kept many from receiving the right one, and fear is not of G-d, fear hath torment. If there was no baptism in the Holy Ghost with the gifts associated with it, then you'd need to cut Joel, Acts and Corinthians out of your bible.
I've made it very plain that the flesh loves to mimic the things of the Spirit, but that doesn't mean we should throw out the baby with the bathwater, amen? Peace
If there is a baby in the bathwater, amen we should be careful dismissing it, reminds me of a sermon titled: 'Is there a baby in the charismatic bathwater?'
The point is not whether or not the gifts exist, but where is the command to baptise in the Holy Spirit though? Baptism in the Spirit has nothing to do with the gifts, it's simply the receiving of the Spirit at conversion. The gifts are bestowed seperately on whom the Holy Spirit will. And the fact that the 12 were disciples doesn't change anything about the exceptional circumstances - disciples are just a group of followers (it doesn't say disciples of Christ), in this case a group of followers of John the Baptist who hadn't heard of Christ or the Spirit. I am sorry you can't see that this was an exceptional circumstance, but we should also take an honest look at the bathwater to see if it's clean right? And the pentecoastal bathwater of baptism in the spirit is muddy and unclear at best and doesn't have reliable Scriptural papers, so it's possibly dangerous. Baptising in the Spirit just wasn't the general way the apostles went about.
If you ask G-d for an egg will He give you a snake?"
Sure. If God thinks the snake will be of more benefit.
God gives a guy, we'll call him Pete, who wanted an egg, a snake. Pete says, "Lord! I asked for an egg and you give me a snake? I had faith in you! What the heck?" God is silent. Pete puts the snake in a box while he ponders God giving him something besides what he asked for. Pete goes to bed with less faith then he had when he asked for the egg. Why didn't God provide for him? Why didn't God give him what he asked for?
The next morning he looks in the box and sees the snake has laid eggs. "Now what?" he thinks. "What am I going to do?" He thinks about it a while and he says to himself, "There's a reason God gave me a snake."
The eggs hatched and Pete had a lot of snakes. And those snakes produced more eggs which led to more snakes. Pete realized God not only gave him an egg...he gave him a LOT of eggs. Pete eventually turned one snake into a successful roadside attraction which made him all sorts of money, snakes being low maintenance, and for the rest of his life Pete, now known as Pete the Snake Guy, praised God for giving him a snake, not an egg. The end.
1) How do you get that? I just showed you twice where it says the gift is for ALL who are called.
2) You don't see the gifts of the SPIRIT in Corinthians???
3) No, it's not. Here are two examples for you to mull over....
Do you recognize that the Corinthian church was highly dysfunctional? That they were doing a lot wrong? That Paul chastized them for their errors?
Quote:
John 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
Yes. God gave them tongues. Now show me where that is guaranteed to be given to all believers subsequently.
Quote:
Note that they were already believers, which means they had received Him, yet there was something they yet lacked, which was the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and once receiving it, true to pattern, they spoke in tongues. That's because the Spirit has a lot to say when it's finally released in a believer to speak. This is why the speaking gifts are so strongly fought against, because the Spirit can pray and things HAPPEN, there is no "wishing" something were so, the Spirit moves and speaks, and it IS so.
Also note that in the first verse we are told that the believers didn't have it yet in that instance, because they couldn't, because Yeshua was not yet glorified, and as Peter tells us in Acts 2, HE shed forth that which you now see and hear. In both cases, believers were walking around without it, but after He was glorified it was now available to the body. And since it's part of our covenant, and He's no respecter of persons, there's not one covenant for first century believers and another one for us. Peace
No. They weren't believers. They had repented-- and been baptized by John the Baptist, but they were not Christians.
So EVERY instance of someone coming to Christ in Acts has someone speaking in tongues? You going to go there?
How about after that? It's strange, but the next generation of Christians, the Church Fathers, don't say much about tongues. They just didn't happen.
Even today, I've never heard an example of tongues that was legit. All I ever hear is some silly ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba nonsense.
If there is a baby in the bathwater, amen we should be careful dismissing it, reminds me of a sermon titled: 'Is there a baby in the charismatic bathwater?'
The point is not whether or not the gifts exist, but where is the command to baptise in the Holy Spirit though? Baptism in the Spirit has nothing to do with the gifts, it's simply the receiving of the Spirit at conversion. The gifts are bestowed seperately on whom the Holy Spirit will. And the fact that the 12 were disciples doesn't change anything about the exceptional circumstances - disciples are just a group of followers (it doesn't say disciples of Christ), in this case a group of followers of John the Baptist who hadn't heard of Christ or the Spirit. I am sorry you can't see that this was an exceptional circumstance, but we should also take an honest look at the bathwater to see if it's clean right? And the pentecoastal bathwater of baptism in the spirit is muddy and unclear at best and doesn't have reliable Scriptural papers, so it's possibly dangerous. Baptising in the Spirit just wasn't the general way the apostles went about.
You are confusing justification with sanctification. The Spirit comes into us at conversion and with that we are justified. The HG comes upon us with the baptism in the HG and we are covered and sealed with the earnest of our inheritance. Earnest means a portion or like a down payment on a house. We are the house He made a "down payment" on that He intends to come back and inhabit full time. This lines up with the priests portion was G-D HIMSELF. One baptism is for repentance and the remission of sins (water) and the other is for sanctification. Water cleanses, but fire sanctifies and sterilizes. One baptism is being baptized into the likeness of His death (the watery grave), the other into the likeness of His life, which is SPIRIT. That baptism is EXACTLY what the apostles went about doing, which is why Paul had a whole church body of Corinthians who were confused about how the gifts operated to begin with!
And what do you think He told them to stay in Jerusalem FOR, then, since they already were disciples, already baptized in water, so why did He tell them to stay until they received the POWER FROM ON HIGH? And why did He tell John the Baptist that BOTH baptisms were necessary for ALL righteousness? Without the baptism in the Holy Ghost the gifts do not exist in the body because they are activated BY that baptism, so if Paul urged us to seek the best gifts and to seek to prophesy, with what Spirit then do we prophesy? If you noticed it said when the HG fell on them, they all spoke with other tongues and prophesied, just as when it fell on Saul and he prophesied, and just as when it fell on the prophets, they prophesied. And Yeshua Himself said He had a baptism with, and that it is fire. Can't be any plainer than that.
There is nothing muddy or unclear about it, but having it makes the understanding of it much simpler, just as being saved helps one read the bible with a little more understanding than the man on the street, because they have experienced part of it. I'm not saying this is your personal motive, but in general men that have never experienced it or been taught of the Lord about it, speak against it because the enemy of our soul wants to shut up His Spirit and shut down His power that is available to believers who receive it. Without it, healing is shut down, getting direct communication from the Lord's Spirit is shut down, prayer becomes just mouthing your own lifeless words like the vain (means devoid of the Spirit) repetitions of the Pharisees He warned about. In short, you can see why the enemy loves to block it, and deny all the scriptures that pertain to it.
Fear is not of G-d, and anything that entreats fear as a reason for not pressing in to receive more of Him is not of G-d. Peace
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