Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Small point of clarification... when it says "through me" that is Jesus talking so it means through Jesus, not through YOU -- and certainly not through whatever theology and beliefs you care to dictate to everyone. I don't know about you, but the Jesus I believe in is God, so the idea that we can only come to God through God is kind of obvious. But if you put that with other scriptures like 1 Tim 2:5 and this is basically warning against people using religion as their own personal tool for lording it over others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
We don't follow teaching and methods... we follow HIM... we are one with HIM.
Ah yes, the all-might "HIM". I have heard of these Himists before from somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
1 John 5:11-12 - And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
It is amazing how people can take a passage like this as a warrant for setting themselves up as the gatekeepers of heaven in spite of the obvious contempt which the Jesus in the Bible had for people like that.
Small point of clarification... when it says "through me" that is Jesus talking so it means through Jesus, not through YOU -- and certainly not through whatever theology and beliefs you care to dictate to everyone. I don't know about you, but the Jesus I believe in is God, so the idea that we can only come to God through God is kind of obvious. But if you put that with other scriptures like 1 Tim 2:5 and this is basically warning against people using religion as their own personal tool for lording it over others.
The green are direct Scripture quotes - so the "Me" in John 14:6 is Christ.
I totally get that salvation is NOT through me. I would screw it up somewhere along the line...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
It is amazing how people can take a passage like this as a warrant for setting themselves up as the gatekeepers of heaven in spite of the obvious contempt which the Jesus in the Bible had for people like that.
Jesus is the gate keeper. I don't understand how you think I am speaking of myself in these cases... but whatever the case... salvation is not through me... I am not the gate keeper.
Looking at the term "witness" from your post. What is the witness?
John 15:26-27 - When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.
John 5:39-40 - "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
Why are you unwilling to come to Him? I am giving you example after example about Jesus Christ being the way... it is faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ... the Bible points to Him... it is all about Him.
The blood and the water are two witnesses and they are in everyone, and this was taken from Jesus body and seen as a legal witness of consummation.
The helper came and then he went away when Gentiles left the covenant and Christians began killing anyone who even kept Pentecost and now we have all these scriptures that were written to converts of Judaism who kept the Pentecost and received the promise of Pentecost, the people that quote scriptures like these, they do not have the Holy spirit which was given on Pentecost and why would they?
Who has the power of the Holy spirit given to those first disciples? I wished I knew his name.
I don't have the spirit of Shavuot because if I did, I could do the works that a person could do. Jesus said ask what you will, and it would be done. Hands were lain on the sick and there was no doubt because everyone they laid hands on got healed. It wasn't a million Christians praying for one dying child and watching the child die, it was one person who actually had the spirit of Pentecost, and there was no doubt. They resurrected the dead and did great and wonderful things and the helper never left them just as the scripture says.
That spirit was shared from hand to hand until the Gentile Christians began killing anyone who kept the feasts of Christ and imagine that. Christians are persecuting and killing the family of anyone who kept the Passover and the Pentecost, Christians killing the very last people who actually had the spirit and after they were all killed, they claimed to have the very spirit that it's feast was used as a vehicle to kill anyone who kept the feast.
Why would God give the Holy spirit of Pentecost to people who killed off anyone who kept Pentecost?
There is a Pentecost in the spring and a Pentecost in the fall and these are two conclusion days to the two seasons of God where the promise is received on those conclusion days, and they are promises to people who actually walk in those feast days in order to receive the promise.
150 years after Jesus, If you were caught as a gentile keeping the Passover or Pentecost of Christ, you were killed.
And yet here you are assuming that you have the spirit of Pentecost and so you can quote those scriptures about the helper, and the Holy spirit but you don't have that spirit, nobody does, and if there was just one person, we would all know his name.
A Christian making a claim to have the spirit of Pentecost is no different than a Hindu claiming to have the spirit of Pentecost, does the Hindu take on the worship system of Christ in keeping his 7 feasts in order to receive the promises of those feasts?
No.
How was the Holy Spirit carried through people who kept the Pentecost, and then handed down from person to person through people who kept the Pentecost now come to you?
Who had the power of the Holy spirit when they laid hands on you to receive?
Were these people working in the miracles of the Holy spirit, were they raising the dead everywhere they went? Did they have enough compassion to walk into a children's cancer unit to heal all those children?
No.
But a claim to have the spirit of Pentecost means that disciples counted the omer unto the promise and they put their hands on somebody else, and those people went out doing miracles and they put their hands on somebody else who also kept the feasts of Christ, and they shared the promise from hand to hand until it has now come to you.
Unfortunately, everyone who kept the 7 feast days of Christ were killed off 2000 years ago, and nobody has had it since, and this isn't a debate, you either have the spirit or you don't.
I do not have the spirit but I freely admit this while praying for the promised spirit to come, and if a person can't admit that he doesn't have the spirit, how can he expect to receive the promise of the coming rain?
Why are you unwilling to come to Him? I am giving you example after example about Jesus Christ being the way... it is faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ... the Bible points to Him... it is all about Him.
And I keep telling you that Jesus can NOT be separated from the Way He taught. You keep trying to make it about the person instead of what that person embodied. Faith in Jesus IS a commitment to the Way. You CAN'T "come to Him" any other way.
The Holy spirit was given mainly to help a person walk with Christ, to give him great strength in dying daily to his selfishness and we can quote all those scriptures about the helper, but what does a man do when he willingly falls into sin?
Does he ever question God saying,'' I thought you would help me past this sinfulness?''
I would say that I try harder than most and I am a complete and utter failure but I take this in stride because I know I don't have the Holy spirit that those first disciples had, and this is a great comfort.
The people who have to assume they have the holy spirit, what must they do?
Do they just rationalize going back to sin?
Do they just rationalize saying,'' Well not everyone who has the Holy spirit were meant to be healers.''
If not all are healers, shouldn't there at least be one in all the millions?
And I keep telling you that Jesus can NOT be separated from the Way He taught. You keep trying to make it about the person instead of what that person embodied. Faith in Jesus IS a commitment to the Way. You CAN'T "come to Him" any other way.
Correction to the bold above... Jesus makes it about the Person.
The blood and the water are two witnesses and they are in everyone, and this was taken from Jesus body and seen as a legal witness of consummation.
The helper came and then he went away when Gentiles left the covenant and Christians began killing anyone who even kept Pentecost and now we have all these scriptures that were written to converts of Judaism who kept the Pentecost and received the promise of Pentecost, the people that quote scriptures like these, they do not have the Holy spirit which was given on Pentecost and why would they?
Who has the power of the Holy spirit given to those first disciples? I wished I knew his name.
....
I have no idea what you are talking about...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
The Holy spirit was given mainly to help a person walk with Christ, to give him great strength in dying daily to his selfishness and we can quote all those scriptures about the helper, but what does a man do when he willingly falls into sin?
Does he ever question God saying,'' I thought you would help me past this sinfulness?''
I would say that I try harder than most and I am a complete and utter failure but I take this in stride because I know I don't have the Holy spirit that those first disciples had, and this is a great comfort.
The people who have to assume they have the holy spirit, what must they do?
Do they just rationalize going back to sin?
Do they just rationalize saying,'' Well not everyone who has the Holy spirit were meant to be healers.''
If not all are healers, shouldn't there at least be one in all the millions?
Regarding the bold, the same Holy Spirit indwells all of those who come to faith in Him.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Regarding the bold, the same Holy Spirit indwells all of those who come to faith in Him.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
It is no wonder that Atheists don't like Christians because a lot of Atheists can read, and they can read the promises made by Jesus to those who received the power of the Holy Spirit, and so mainstream Christianity claims the same power that those first disciples had, and this is a great problem because not one Christian can do any of the works that the first disciples had, it is merely a person making a claim without the least bit of evidence of actually having the Holy spirit.
You are not going to walk up on a dead man and resurrect him, do you think you can?
People are not going to camp around your house day and night because they have heard and seen the great miracles that a person can do when he has the power of the Holy spirit.
You make a claim of having a power that you do not have, and if you did have it, we wouldn't be having this conversation, nor would any Atheist be in here talking about Christianity because we would all know that somebody was filled with the Holy spirit and there is not one.
I am not trying to be insulting, I do not have the spirit and I for sure know that I can't do any of the works of having the Holy spirit.
Is there really a person indwelled with the power of the Holy spirit that was given on Pentecost?
No.
I can't imagine anyone denying this because it's black and white, you can either do the works that those first disciples did or you can't, and why would God give his Holy spirit of Pentecost to people who do not believe in keeping Pentecost?
It is no wonder that Atheists don't like Christians because a lot of Atheists can read, and they can read the promises made by Jesus to those who received the power of the Holy Spirit, and so mainstream Christianity claims the same power that those first disciples had, and this is a great problem because not one Christian can do any of the works that the first disciples had, it is merely a person making a claim without the least bit of evidence of actually having the Holy spirit.
You are not going to walk up on a dead man and resurrect him, do you think you can?
People are not going to camp around your house day and night because they have heard and seen the great miracles that a person can do when he has the power of the Holy spirit.
You make a claim of having a power that you do not have, and if you did have it, we wouldn't be having this conversation, nor would any Atheist be in here talking about Christianity because we would all know that somebody was filled with the Holy spirit and there is not one.
What is his name?
Again - I don't know what you are talking about - I have never claimed to have the power of the early disciples. The Holy Spirit gives out gifts and powers in accordance with the Father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
I am not trying to be insulting, I do not have the spirit and I for sure know that I can't do any of the works of having the Holy spirit.
Is there really a person indwelled with the power of the Holy spirit that was given on Pentecost?
No.
I can't imagine anyone denying this because it's black and white, you can either do the works that those first disciples did or you can't, and why would God give his Holy spirit of Pentecost to people who do not believe in keeping Pentecost?
Again - there is one Holy Spirit given to all believers. Peter's testimony regarding Cornelius...
Acts 11:15-17 - "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, `John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
