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Old 07-22-2016, 09:28 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,881 posts, read 26,100,556 times
Reputation: 16011

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
So if I began to ask you questions about Revelation, you will help me?


LOL, Revelation is about the fall Holy days and just because you don't know that doesn't unravel it.


It's like people who don't know what it means to receive a mark in your forehead and right hand every year, and they will make up some crazy idea when it is the most ancient and most practiced tradition in Judaism, but if you don't know the law, you just make stuff up about Revelation, if you don't know that you are reading about Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, the feast of Tabernacles, and Shemini Atzeret, you should get a clue mike.


The wine harvest is not something you just make up because you don't know anything about the wine harvest.






I can see you quoting Revelation trying to act like the grape harvest could be just anytime, and it can be just anything Mike, but it is set in thousands of years of people practicing it in all it's prayers and tradition and suddenly you come along and it means something else now?


When the trumpets are blowing on the feast of trumpets in Revelation, are you going to say it isn't Rosh Hashanah?


When people are being sealed in their forehead EVERY SINGLE YEAR for Yom Kippur, suddenly you are gonna come up and say,'' No, People don't get marked in their foreheads against Yom Kippur?''


Just because you do not know the worship system of Jesus and his ways, it aint gonna change Mike.


The feasts are set in stone for exact days and just like the wheat and the tares, you going to say it's not the wheat harvest, or the sower is not the barley harvest?


You understand Revelation completely and you don't know it is about the fall Holy days?


Why?


Because you don't know the worship system of Jesus, and that's ok Mike, but teaching Revelation is not something a person should take lightly and there is a clear warning about this in the book itself.
Hannibal, you allegorize the hell out of everything, and I simply don't agree with your views. Nor am I the one ''making up stuff about Revelation.''

For example, the mark on the forehead or right hand that many people will take in the Tribulation (Revelation 13:16-18) is to be understood literally. Without that mark no one will be able to buy and sell. That's simple and straightforward.

As for the trumpet judgments which you think is Rosh Hashanah or the feast of trumpets, a feast which signals the beginning of the Jewish civil calendar, and during which no work is to be done, and burnt offerings and a sin offering are to be brought before the Lord, the seven trumpet judgments are in fact a series of judgments on the earth in which great destruction will result on the earth. These trumpet judgments are mentioned in Revelation chapter 8. The judgments that are unleashed with the blowing of each of the seven trumpets are described beginning in Revelation 8:7. There is no festival taking place with these trumpet judgments. There is instead a great amount of destruction taking place, including the killing of a third of the remaining people on the earth (9:15).

While a great deal of symbolic language and imagery is used in Revelation, all that symbolism describes very real and literal events.
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:27 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,828,036 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Christianity is not a religion, but despite the denominational differences within Christianity, it is a relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ.

And yet, you just announced your intention to start celebrating Jesus' birthday on Krishna Janmaashtami which is a holiday of the Hindu religion.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...maashtami.html

That makes you a bit of a hyprocrite.





In the same sentence you imply that Paul and Jesus are in agreement, and that they are in opposition.

Jesus was born, lived, died, and resurrected during the age of Israel when the Mosaic law was still in effect. With the beginning of the Church-age, the Mosaic law, which was given to the Jews, not to the Gentiles, is no longer in effect.




As I said, many of the Jewish Christians in the early church did continue to keep the practices of Judaism. But they did so out of habit and custom. Not as a requirement to be a Christian. Paul made it perfectly clear that Christians are not under the law, and that they do not have to follow the practices of Judaism.

The Galatians were mostly Gentiles. And to them Paul said that if they wanted to be under law (Gal. 4:21) they would be subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).

If you insist on being on enslaving yourself to the practices of Judaism, then do so. Just don't attempt to enslave others.

I choose the freedom that is in Christ Jesus.
Gentiles were never under the law to begin with, so how would they be putting themselves under the yoke AGAIN???...

Yes, you prefer the freedom of rebelling against G-d's Torah, therefore, you are Law-less or without Law...
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:30 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,828,036 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You're referring to Matthew 5:19.

As I said, Jesus was born, lived, died, and rose in the age of Israel which is a different dispensation than the Church age in which we now live. Jesus fulfilled the law, and He was the only one who could keep the law perfectly. No one else was able to. But the law of Moses was set aside at the cross. The Mosaic Law was given to Israel alone. It was not given to the Church. The perfect righteousness which is required for eternal life cannot be attained by attempting to keep the law of Moses. It can only be attained by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5] For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Gal. 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25] But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Mosaic Law pointed to Jesus. Jesus came. We are therefore not under the tutor which is the Law of Moses. We are released from the Law. If you won't believe Paul, then that's on you and you can choose to remain enslaved to the law. Personally, I prefer the freedom which is in Christ Jesus.
Where in the Mosaic Law?...

And when did Jesus say the Law was done away with?....
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:37 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,828,036 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
The ot is correct for the most part--Daniel is 100% for sure speaking of these last days.= Now
No, it's not...Read all of Daniel here along with the Rashi commentary and you'll see - Daniel - Chapter 1 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,747 posts, read 10,207,716 times
Reputation: 2277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Hannibal, you allegorize the hell out of everything, and I simply don't agree with your views. Nor am I the one ''making up stuff about Revelation.''

For example, the mark on the forehead or right hand that many people will take in the Tribulation (Revelation 13:16-18) is to be understood literally. Without that mark no one will be able to buy and sell. That's simple and straightforward.

As for the trumpet judgments which you think is Rosh Hashanah or the feast of trumpets, a feast which signals the beginning of the Jewish civil calendar, and during which no work is to be done, and burnt offerings and a sin offering are to be brought before the Lord, the seven trumpet judgments are in fact a series of judgments on the earth in which great destruction will result on the earth. These trumpet judgments are mentioned in Revelation chapter 8. The judgments that are unleashed with the blowing of each of the seven trumpets are described beginning in Revelation 8:7. There is no festival taking place with these trumpet judgments. There is instead a great amount of destruction taking place, including the killing of a third of the remaining people on the earth (9:15).

While a great deal of symbolic language and imagery is used in Revelation, all that symbolism describes very real and literal events.

Yeah, I was a bit rude dude, sorry.


I try not to tell everyone, but I think I am the two witnesses.


Blood and water.


So yeah, I guess we would disagree but I say these things come upon every generation, except maybe a real end and there is a burning day of the Lord coming like an oven and he will test the works of all men by fire.


When the rain falls, it falls on the good and the evil, and when everything under the heavens with the elements burning and you standing in the flames of God because your work didn't burn, it wasn't because you were raptured, EVERY MAN.
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:45 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,828,036 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Humanity has been experiencing the last day(s) since its conception.
In reality, it's when you take your last breath of air in this life.

When the words "end of days" was used in Daniel, it was in reference to the visions that Daniel was having, which were visions concerning Babylon, Persia, Media, Alexander of Macedon (his kingdom was split into four after his death) and Titus of Rome...They weren't visions of what was going to happen 6k years later...
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:52 AM
 
63,367 posts, read 39,639,230 times
Reputation: 7772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No, it doesn't . . .! It is the reason the Jews missed the Christ. They had and have all the wrong expectations from their writings to this very day. They are a classic case of expectations driving perceptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No, no we don't...
Yes, yes you do have the wrong expectations and have had since well before Christ. It is why you have lost the "wings of eternity." You have obedience in your hearts instead of agape love. It will make a difference in the outcomes you experience. We can talk about in the next life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
My assertions? I directed you to what Paul and Peter said at the council of Jerusalem, and what Paul wrote to the Galatians. You can read can't you? You can comprehend what you read can't you? The teaching by the Judaizers that to be saved you had to keep the law of Moses was rejected by the apostles.
True, but not because the law was abolished. It is because the law is irrelevant as long as you act out of agape love. The two new commands contain and exceed anything in the law.
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:55 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,828,036 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Hannibal, I understand the Book of Revelation quite well and I'm not in need of your interpretation and allegorizations of it, or of your claimed requirements for understanding that book. And it absolutely is not necessary to study the Jewish Talmud which is not even inspired scripture.
But, the Tanakh is inspired...The Talmud is a collection of writings by the Sages explaining the Holy Scriptures...Kinda like the uninspired Christian commentary you keep cutting and pasting into your posts...ironic...

Quote:
First of all, I hold to the futuristic view of Revelation. Quite simply, without going into great detail, Chapters 2-3 pertain to the present Church-age. Chapters 4-19 deal with God's judgments on Israel and the unbelieving Gentile nations of the world. The various judgments are laid out quite well. The Church will not be on the earth during the Tribulation (I hold to the pre-Tribulational view of the rapture). No Church-age believer need worry about being left behind to endure the judgments of the Tribulation. Chapters 20 -22 deal with events following the Tribulation and into the new heavens and earth.
If Daniel is a prophecy of end times, then why do we need Revelation?...


Quote:
And no, neither you or anyone else can put an exact date on any of the events of Revelation, and anyone who thinks they can has no credibility whatsoever.
You just did...
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Old 07-23-2016, 01:01 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,828,036 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Hannibal, you allegorize the hell out of everything, and I simply don't agree with your views. Nor am I the one ''making up stuff about Revelation.''

For example, the mark on the forehead or right hand that many people will take in the Tribulation (Revelation 13:16-18) is to be understood literally. Without that mark no one will be able to buy and sell. That's simple and straightforward.

As for the trumpet judgments which you think is Rosh Hashanah or the feast of trumpets, a feast which signals the beginning of the Jewish civil calendar, and during which no work is to be done, and burnt offerings and a sin offering are to be brought before the Lord, the seven trumpet judgments are in fact a series of judgments on the earth in which great destruction will result on the earth. These trumpet judgments are mentioned in Revelation chapter 8. The judgments that are unleashed with the blowing of each of the seven trumpets are described beginning in Revelation 8:7. There is no festival taking place with these trumpet judgments. There is instead a great amount of destruction taking place, including the killing of a third of the remaining people on the earth (9:15).

While a great deal of symbolic language and imagery is used in Revelation, all that symbolism describes very real and literal events.
But, you don't know what that symbolism means...You're a fan of Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, aren't you?...
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Old 07-23-2016, 01:04 AM
 
Location: US
32,529 posts, read 21,828,036 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Yes, yes you do have the wrong expectations and have had since well before Christ. It is why you have lost the "wings of eternity." You have obedience in your hearts instead of agape love. It will make a difference in the outcomes you experience. We can talk about in the next life.
True, but not because the law was abolished. It is because the law is irrelevant as long as you act out of agape love. The two new commands contain and exceed anything in the law.
They were not new commandments...
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