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This has been a lonely vigil this afternoon, ShanaBrown. I am so glad you have finally arrived to let me partake of a little nourishment before I pass out.
Apollumi, as you most assuredly know, is the word linked with olethros destruction, and in fact rests on it. In either case it can be demonstrated that both have salvation encapsulated within the operation. In the case of the individual turned over to Satan, (no indication he was a believer, but surely an attendee in Corinth), for olethros destruction, salvation is most assuredly in the final chapter, and his spirit being "saved" in the day of the Lord. Loss? Definitely, but salvation of his spirit.
Apollumi is rooted in olethros and is used in numerous passages of the New Covenant: again salvation is linked with this word
So do you guys just ignore John 3:16? I'm just wondering because this says it all, if your a Bible believing person. Or maybe, you just believe in parts of it?
Actually, John 3:16 says something, but does not say it all. It says something that must be aligned with other scripture such as 1 Cor. 15:22. It all must work together.
Failure to see the big picture is why we have 38,000 different but all supposedly 'bible believing' denominations.
blessings
- Byron
Last edited by firstborn888; 02-18-2008 at 07:50 PM..
Reason: clarification
This has been a lonely vigil this afternoon, ShanaBrown. I am so glad you have finally arrived to let me partake of a little nourishment before I pass out.
Sorry I've not jumped in here till now Birdy - it's just that the war against false nonsense doctrine has so many fronts
How I long for all to see the 'big picture' of how God created all things for a purpose, and the purpose wasn't to abandon billions of fallen descendants of His son Adam.
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
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Jesus says, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12)
If one is lost then all are not kept. Who will you believe Jesus or man. Slam dunk game over!
Jesus says, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12)
If one is lost then all are not kept. Who will you believe Jesus or man. Slam dunk game over!
We already discussed that there are no 'one scripture' slam dunks. The only way to find ultimate destination is to find God's ultimate plan.
Check out these apparent contradictions: 'forever' until....
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).
Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no
more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27 --until--the Lord will
"restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).
Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.
The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without
blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a
"perpetual"-- until-- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies
for our sins. We now have a better covenant
established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb.
8:6-13).
God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);
Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).
"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).
Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).
So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
So yes, the son of perdition was lost.
But since every knee will bow and every tongue will confess and God will be all in all,
then this in some way this 'loss' must harmonize with ultimate plan of restoration
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888
So yes, the son of perdition was lost.
But since every knee will bow and every tongue will confess and God will be all in all,
then this in some way this 'loss' must harmonize with ultimate plan of restoration
Sorry I've not jumped in here till now Birdy - it's just that the war against false nonsense doctrine has so many fronts
How I long for all to see the 'big picture' of how God created all things for a purpose, and the purpose wasn't to abandon billions of fallen descendants of His son Adam.
Keep up the good work!
Blessings,
- Byron
My friend Byron: I have had the honour of knowing the Lord Jesus Christ personally for over 50 years. In that time of getting to know a small fraction of His abounding love and grace, a strong foundation of trust develops in Him. Our God does all things well. With His "hands" He breaks and rends, and chastises us to make us in His own image.Like the Psalmist, I would rather, much much rather, fall into His glorious hands than the hands of men.
Phil. 2:10,11
Quote:
It is because of this also that God has so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other name, In order that in the Name of Jesus (so that in adoration of the Name of Jesus) every knee should bow, of beings in the highest heavens, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
kavmptw = bow=
Used of worshippers.
To bow one's self.
Confess= ejxomologevw
Confess/ profess.
A. To acknowledge openly and joyfully.
B. To celebrate/ to give praise to.
Exomologeo Rooted In oJmologevw
oJmologevw=
To confess/ declare.
A. To profess/ declare openly and freely.
B. To profess one's self the worshipper of one.
C. To praise and celebrate.
In the Name/ Within the Name -Jonathan Mitchell Greek N.T.-
Quote:
For this reason, God also lifts Him up above (highly exalts Him; elevates Him over) and by grace gives to Him (graces on Him) the Name -- the one over and above every name! -- to the end that within The Name: Jesus! (or: in the name of {or: belonging to} Jesus), EVERY KNEE -- of the men upon the heavens (of those belonging to the super-heavens) and of the men existing upon the earth and of the men dwelling down under the ground (or: pertaining to subterranean ones) -- may bend (should bow) in worship or prayer, and EVERY TONGUE may speak out the same thing (should openly agree, confess and acclaim) that Jesus Christ Lord <= Yahweh?> -- into glory of Father God (or: unto Father God's reputation)!
So do you guys just ignore John 3:16? I'm just wondering because this says it all, if your a Bible believing person.
Amen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888
Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.
By your 'one scripture' definition devils will be saved since according to James they also believe.
I'm sorry if this is confusing to anyone.
blessings,
- Byron
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888
Actually, John 3:16 says something, but does not say it all. It says something that must be aligned with other scripture such as 1 Cor. 15:22. It all must work together.
Failure to see the big picture is why we have 38,000 different but all supposedly 'bible believing' denominations.
blessings
- Byron
John 3:16 does say it all. There is no "big picture" beyond this. And that is why, at the end of time, every knee will bow before God's glory, and every one will know that He is God.. however, it will be too late for those who have not received Jesus' sacrifice in this life. No mercy and no second chance will be available, although it is understandable that the devil would like to tell us otherwise.
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