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...but Yahweh doesn't intervene in such things and Christians say that the reason he doesn't intervene in such things is that he will not interfere with a person's 'free will'. Why do you feel you should interfere with the free will of a criminal when your god doesn't?
Nonsense. Of course God intervenes in the lives of Christians (and non-Christians).
The Lord God through Jesus Christ give man and women free will to chose to follow Jesus because that God loves us , He does not what to force people to love Him , Like would you force your spouse to love you or for a person to love and marry you , which the same thing ............... See God through Jesus does not give signs , as Jesus would reject God giving signs in the day before the cross of Christ , but Jesus will give people a witness of His spirit , and may lead people where faith is exercised
If I was the original poster, I would ignore your comment.
If that is his wish he will do so.
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Originally Posted by Tenzo
Yes, I know you are trolling;
Not at all. I am simply pointing out how, when the question is posed...'Why doesn't 'God' help', the usual answer from theists is that 'God' will not intervene in our 'free-will'.
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God has always given his people free will.
It was Adam and Eve's free will to choose whether to pick from the tree of knowledge or live in Eden.
Adam and Eve made their decision. Since then man has free will to do good and bad, to create his own destiny by his decisions.
Well, so the story goes....
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What kind of God would create us just to have us exist as puppets on a string?
So what is going to happen in this 'heaven' that you are convinced that you are going to?
Is there going to be 'free-will' there and if so, how is your god going to prevent people choosing to do bad rather than good?
If there isn't going to be free-will there, are you going to be complaining about being a puppet on a string there?
If there is going to be free-will there but people are not going to do bad things, why couldn't your god create the same situation here?
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Hi Rafius. I'm curious about something (not trying to start any debate with you, I'm just wondering). Assuming there is no god, do you accept the concept of "free will" to any degree, or are you more of a fatalist?
In the case of there being no god, we have the 'free-will' to do whatever we chose. In the case of there being an omnimax deity that has planned our lives for us, as in the case of Yahweh, then 'free-will' is not possible because we cannot make any free-will decision that will alter what the deity has already planned for us.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Nonsense. Of course God intervenes in the lives of Christians (and non-Christians).
God has always given his people free will.
It was Adam and Eve's free will to choose whether to pick from the tree of knowledge or live in Eden.
Adam and Eve made their decision. Since then man has free will to do good and bad, to create his own destiny by his decisions.
Man was not meant to live in the Garden...G-d put him there to tend it and guard it...That's all...It was always G-d's intention for man to leave in order for man to grow as a human being...
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Bad guys have free will to do bad things, good people have free will to do good things. What's really neat is each moment, we have the free will to change.
The guy who was committing suicide told me he was a bad person. I told him that everyone was good inside and had the freedom to make their own decisions. That despite what he may have done in the past, he can be a good person and that I believed he was a good person. That only good people would care what they did.
G-d created man with a Yetzer HaRa and a Yetzer HaTov (had inclination and good inclination, respectively) and gave us free will...Our mission is to improve ourselves daily by following our good inclination, and the more we do the less the had inclination has an affect on us...You just keep following those good inclinations and you will become a better human being than most of us on this board...
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People have the free will to do bad things. People also have the free will to prevent those bad things.
What kind of God would create us just to have us exist as puppets on a string?
This is going to sound pretty dull, maybe you want to hear God has sent you on a mission to save people and be a hero. But I think perhaps God wanted you to visit this forum to hear the Gospel truth that it's not works that save us.
Truth is, no matter how good the things are that you did, they will not save you. You can save another human temporarily from committing suicide and that is a great and awesome thing to do, but if that person does not know Jesus Christ, he or she is still in satans hands and will eventually die. And I don't think that guy being promoted into the vatican is a spiritual blessing at all, rather the opposite I'm affraid. That whole Roman Catholic system is falsely based on works salvation, while Scripture says it is not by works but by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
As you see, the order is as believers we must first be saved through faith in Jesus Christ, and then walk into the good works Christ Jesus leads us in and God had ordained.
My question for you is, have you been saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ? Did you ever repent from sin and do you know Jesus Christ paid the penalty for your sins personally? Have you been born again, as the Scripture says in John 3, and received the Holy Spirit? Do you hate your own sin and love Gods holiness?
Those are more important questions for you than what these 'signs' could mean, besides God is showing you that He is real and nothing is by coincedence.
God bless you!
So, this is why you're over in the Judaism forum, to convince us Jews that we should reject Torah...
So, this is why you're over in the Judaism forum, to convince us Jews that we should reject Torah...
No, not that you should reject the Torah. That you should accept Him whom the Torah speaks of, the Mashiach prophesied to come, Yeshua. And not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill the Law. The Law was never an instrument for salvation, because even 1 transgression against Gods Holy Law we cannot repay.. that is why sacrifice was needed, innocent animals had to be slaughtered for the forgiveness of sins. Even as Adam and Eve leave paradise, God kills animals to make a covering for them, not because they deserved it but because God is both Righteous and gracious. His Righteousness demanded justice to be done for the transgression they committed by eating from the forbidden tree, His grace offered means for reconciliation and a covering - as to not reject them completely, though that is what they deserved.
Genesis 3v21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
The means for our salvation was never perfectly keeping the Law, it was by faith, not because we deserve it .. Adam and Eve didnt deserve anything either.. but because God is gracious. Even before Abraham was circumcised, God accounted his faith as Righteousness.
Genesis 15v6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
It was never by the works of the Law we were saved, though obedience to the Lord is important, as a result of faith.
Deutoronomy 27v26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Take special notice of this Scripture in Leviticus, what is necessary for atonement of the soul.. for eternal life with God.. is blood sacrifice.
Leviticus 17v11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
The Jewish system as it is today is nothing but works without faith, and without sacrifice, looks good on the outside, but its hollow on the inside. Is Gods Law important? Yes! Is it the means for salvation? No, and it never was.
Only when you believe in Yeshua the Jewish Mashiach, can you be saved and receive eternal life. And only after you realise your own works will never earn you any merit with God, they are as filthy rags Yeshayahu says..
Isaiah 64v6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
The only thing God is asking from you is to believe in Yeshua whom He sent.
Yeshua did perfectly keep the Law, was perfectly sinless and obedient in all things, and most of all Yeshua was the perfect Sacrifice for our sins that the Lord demanded should be paid for us to be saved. If you believe in Yeshua, as a result you will start living by faith, and Yeshua will lead you in all Righteousness and Holiness. You will enjoy a life that is depending on the Lord in all things, and not on its own works and merit.. its grace that brought me safe thusfar, and grace will lead me home. I pray I will see you there when I come home to be with my Savior Richard.
Aramaic Bible in plain English. John 17v3 “But these things are eternal life: 'They shall know you, for you alone are The God of Truth, and Yeshua The Messiah whom you have sent.' “
The only sign we should be looking for in my opinion is the birth of Christ in us. It's no use to us at all saying the bible says Christ is in us, it is far more than that..... If we can't answer it from knowing it in reality then we fall short and miss the mark of the most prized possession available to mankind.Christ is the sign always has been and always will be. Why ? Because he points us to the Father and to the reality of our true identity.
Christ is the anointing that opens our eyes ears and heart to the Father and the voice of the Father, and when we hear that voice we leave the voice of the stranger that we have followed for so long that deceived us and got us wrapped up and bound in biases, prejudices and in the illusion that we are separated from God.
I'm Buddhist. (Which does not preventing me from acknowledging a god or taking in Jesus Christ. I have been baptized Lutheran, confirmed Presbyterian and went to Garrett at Northwestern, where I received my Doctorate in Religion)
My wife is Catholic
So we decided to get married in both churches.
I got married in mine on March 20th.
Later, we flew to Florence, to get married in a church whose foundation was built in 410 AD
The paperwork arrived for him and showed the previous Buddhist wedding.
Upon seeing this he could not and would not marry us. He confirmed it with a friend in the Vatican. Not allowed.
Months before the wedding we were putting together our own cards, invitations and programs. In the Italian Catholic wedding family read quotes from the bible.
It was a little tough, because my wife didn't want quotes from Genesis ("Obey your husband like your husband obeys God" didn't go over well)
For me, I didn't want the "I profess myself in Jesus name" quote. Since it would be somewhat hypocritical.
So I choose quotations about coming together. People of different views, different types etc.
And the sanctity of marriage.
Months before the wedding, he had worked on a sermon that was taking place the weekend we were getting married. It was an occasion of major importance to the church. The father worked in quotes from the bible for his sermon.
Back to just before the wedding. Three days before the father asked us to come in. He was going to offer to give us a blessing, not a wedding. We had many friends who had flown a long way to celebrate our wedding.
Before the meeting he got our papers together and looked at them closely. (He had not reviewed them until that time.) In our program were the quotes from the bible. He was surprised when he saw them. He compared them to the quote he had taken from the bible and they were exactly the same.
He called the Vatican. He felt that the exact same quotes were a sign from God.
After review, the person he knew at the Vatican agreed.
He married us in a lovely ceremony.
Two weeks later he was promoted and called upon to work in the Vatican.
(Oh and the Buddhist minister who married us. He was promoted to Bishop two weeks after)
Now you may not consider this a intercession by God. But I do, the father does, and a member of the Vatican's staff does.
You can't calculate the odds of what happened, happening. And while you might scoff, it was enough proof to enough people, to the Catholic Church, and also us.
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