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I don't have a lot of time to develop my question, so I am debating even posting it. Moreover, the father of a friend just died...this thread might be a mental diversion amidst personal loss.
This is something I have wondered for years...
I am familiar with the Scriptures.
I know the charge that we are not to neglect fellowship (Heb 10:25).
A little story:
Many years ago, I was a Pharisee amidst Pharisee's, in an expository teaching fellowship.
I knew a brother whom I judged to be unfaithful, because his church attendance was inconsistent.
I thought myself better than this brother as I had been consistent in my church attendance (Lk 18:11), yet he had not been consistent in his church attendance.
This went on for about six months.
Then one day, the Brother announced that he was moving, and I wished him well. Turned out that he drove a tractor trailer across country, hence his appearance of inconsistent church attendance, as he was given to attend churches across the country, in whatever area he happened to be.
I misjudged this brother, in what the Scriptures call evil surmisings (1 Tim 6:4) - coming to a conclusion without an accurate representation of the facts.
The above lesson changed my walk.
Now...that was many years ago, when I was a very new/young believer, whose knowledge of the Scriptures was shallow.
Now I myself am in somewhat of a similar position as the tractor trailer driver I used as an illustration. My availability of church attendance is based upon several factors, thus my attendance might appear to be inconsistent.
There are some differences however, between my illustration and myself.
At the time I had made this judgement I was a very young/newer Christian, with little knowledge of the Scriptures.
And the below situation involves those who are mature Christians, not Pharisees, who know the Scriptures:
Why is it that you can be an ugly person, but if you're someone who's at church all of the time, you're received; you're invited into inner circles, gatherings, fellowship...well thought and spoken of.
Yet you might be an ugly person - perhaps hard hearted, proud, etc.
BUT...you attend services regularly, so you're in like flynn!
Yet someone such as myself, who is somewhat consistent but not necessarily by choice - is kept on the outside; never included into the fold.
Unlike the tractor trailer driver whose situation was unknown, my situation is in "open view."
The upshot of the whole thing is that, sans a Brother or two here or there, I am kept at an arms length from folks.
What I am saying in all of this is that I marvel at the fact that a person's quality of their walk is determined on the appearances of church attendance. You can be any kind of person, whose qualities could be good or bad. Yet, you're well thought of, and included, simply because you attend services regularly.
I myself have not observed this ... I would tend to think an unpleasant person would generally be unpopular socially regardless of the frequency of their church attendance. That's too bad if you're observing this phenomenon as I don't think it's right to exclude members of the church from church activities just because they aren't there every week or don't have as many "brownie points" from participating in as many church activities etc. One of the best ways to get someone to be at church more often is to try to get them involved in activities, after all, not to shun them.
I agree that we are absolutely called to fellowship regularly (as you referenced, Heb 10:24-25). But for people with health issues or other reasons beyond their control that limit their attendance, I think any church or brother/sister should be understanding of these limitations. Your friend the commercial driver is a great example of faithful observance, taking time to attend church wherever he might be around the country (and that is often not easy given the tight timelines truckers are often stuck with, so I give him all the more praise).
I go to a large church, therefore many people who may be in the hospital or infirm or sick, will watch the service as it is streamed online. I have done so myself a number of times when my wife or myself were not able to make it to church due to health issues that day. That way we can keep up on our notes and not miss the message...it's not nearly the same as attending church in person, of course, but it's a lot better than nothing. The concern with this is you do want believers to fellowship together instead of just watching online because they find it easier, so that has been a teaching point or reminder from our pastor in his comments and messages.
Even if one attends a smaller church without amenities like services streaming via the internet, perhaps you can find another church with similar beliefs or a good Bible teacher whose services you can watch if you are not able to make it to service that day.
Our choices do reflect our priorities, and so if someone is prioritizing their kids' soccer games or the NFL schedule or "weekends at the lake" or whatever over church attendance, then my opinion would be that they need to question why they are giving church services lower priority in the way they schedule their life. (At the same time, the corollary would be if someone goes to church every week but doesn't think about God much the rest of the week, then that is also a problem.)
But if someone is in the hospital or not well enough to venture out of their home very often or has a situation like your friend the trucker ... I don't think it's right to judge or exclude them; if anything, it is a cause to be joyous towards them when they ARE able to make it.
Usually people who only see evil in others or critical and speak into it are basically spiritually immature or underdeveloped , as they may have a preacher that does the same thing and people follow the critical preacher ..... Where Jesus said follow me not the critical preacher , as Jesus has the lead in the spirit which children of God will be .... On thing I did for years is to rebuke pride in myself , and pride in the church were I go as God resist the proud .... So every month or so I go and attend another church and go and pray for them , so to keep the pride in check ........Still for you discerned your mistake for your brother stabilities in Christ and that shows maturity
I don't have a lot of time to develop my question, so I am debating even posting it. Moreover, the father of a friend just died...this thread might be a mental diversion amidst personal loss.
But if someone is in the hospital or not well enough to venture out of their home very often or has a situation like your friend the trucker ... I don't think it's right to judge or exclude them; if anything, it is a cause to be joyous towards them when they ARE able to make it.
The above sentiment echo's my feelings wholeheartedly, and I thank you for the time you took in replying.
The thing that vexes me...I am talking about people who know the Scriptures; who are young men or better (1 John 2:13). Not talking about babes who don't know the Word of God. I'm also not talking about people who don't show some sign of being led by the Lord.
It's very hard to reconcile all of this.
One of my favorite Scriptures is Isaiah 11:3:
"His delight is in the fear of the Lord, and He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, nor decide by the hearing of His ears; but with righteousness He shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked."
I could go on and on .
May everything be established by two or more witnesses (Deuteronomy 19:15); it is an evil thing to conclude something through false reasoning (1 Tim 6:4); it is not wise to compare/judge yourself to other people (2 Cor 10:2).
A lot of folks judge by appearances, or against behavior that they consider to be "within the lines" - e.g. being at church every time the door is open, or perhaps not participating in an effort/ministry that the Lord hasn't specifically called me to.
There are a diversity of gifts and callings. Few believers recognize this. There are a couple - literal handful - of people who buck the trend. I've met a few disciples of Christ who really made marks in my life, and in my walk. But being in a church is an extremely wearisome thing. Being in friendships with believers is likewise wearisome, for most lack grace.
Usually people who only see evil in others or critical and speak into it are basically spiritually immature or underdeveloped , as they may have a preacher that does the same thing and people follow the critical preacher ..... Where Jesus said follow me not the critical preacher , as Jesus has the lead in the spirit which children of God will be .... On thing I did for years is to rebuke pride in myself , and pride in the church were I go as God resist the proud .... So every month or so I go and attend another church and go and pray for them , so to keep the pride in check ........Still for you discerned your mistake for your brother stabilities in Christ and that shows maturity
Thanks for your reply
I can't take any credit for anything I discerned .
I remember when I was a young Christian, and I remember the couple of believers who may have perceived pride or haughtiness in my spirit - YET...they treated me with great kindness and respect. I never forgot them, or their example. I try to mirror this in my own walk.
I agree with you, that those who are critical are immature.
The Spirit is the helper (John 14:16); the enemy is the accuser (Rev 12:10).
Yet so few people come alongside, and seek to help. Usually it's a deficiency that people perceive, or create, that causes division and separation.
Most of my unsaved (childhood) friends are willing to bear with my flaws. Sadly can this be said of few Christians...and what really stinks is that the majority of times, problems arise because I don't meet someone's expectations - NOT because i'm not where the Lord would have me.
Example might be that I don't attend a specific church that friends might attend. There might be nothing wrong with the church, but it's not where the Lord would have me.
(Manufactured problem: what's wrong with "our" church?)
Another example might be that I don't support a political candidate that's popular within the church. Perhaps I dislike the candidate, and if asked, tell the truth as to why I don't support them.
(Manufactured problem: NDL is divisive)
Another example might be that XYZ ministry half way around the world is holding a function, and I don't get involved. I don't show any interest. I don't fault someone for showing interest in their cause, as I might be involved locally with causes effecting my neighbors. But I don't show interest in XYZ.
Many times in my walk have I sought to quit the church for good, but that wasn't an option.
I know some people have different opinions on how lightly or heavily one should take the idea of switching churches -- but personally I think sometimes it can be an option if people just aren't happy or have a lot of unpleasant memories or conflicts with other church members. Surely it's better to find a church home where you're happy and well fed in the Word and eager to attend frequently, versus a place that one might find conflict and find yourself trying to avoid or stop going entirely? I guess that would be a topic for another thread.
How big is your church? I've attended or visited churches of various sizes and I think sometimes smaller churches can be more "stressful" to some believers because everyone knows everyone and sometimes you get in a situation where everyone knows each other's business, so to speak, or there may be issues with gossip or cliques or what have you. In these cases a large church may be more freeing because of the relative anonymity; the downside of course to that is in a large church you have to work harder to make personal connections, whereas in a smaller church they tend to just happen organically. But, on the other hand, in a large church, you are going to have such a diversity of believers and so many opportunities to get involved in various ministries and activities, that anybody can volunteer for anything regardless of whether they're in the "in crowd" or a new member.
I don't know if this might be a situation worth talking to an elder or pastor about in your church; maybe they could get you directly involved in some things or give you ideas on the best way to contribute despite your personal schedule that makes it impossible to attend every week. Example being, if you aren't able to make it every week, that's not a good fit for children's ministry. But it could be a great fit for a spring cleaning detail or a special conference/retreat volunteer, or something that meets monthly instead of weekly, etc. I truly wish you the best and would love to brainstorm further if I am off base or if you already tried this kind of stuff. [CENTER]Save[/CENTER]
In these cases a large church may be more freeing because of the relative anonymity; the downside of course to that is in a large church you have to work harder to make personal connections, whereas in a smaller church they tend to just happen organically. But, on the other hand, in a large church, you are going to have such a diversity of believers and so many opportunities to get involved in various ministries and activities, that anybody can volunteer for anything regardless of whether they're in the "in crowd" or a new member.
I wonder if that isn't the key?
In other words, perhaps in a large church comes the wealth of a diversity of believers/levels of maturity.
And a more mature believer is one that is more self effacing, and thus is a lot less apt to separate based upon what he sees in others?
In other words, if you were to take a large piece of what paper, and draw a nickle sized black dot in the middle, what is it that you see? A white piece of paper, or a black dot?
The immature believer will see nothing but the black dot. The black dot will dominate that piece of paper; it will be the focal point of all that they see.
The mature believer will see a black dot, but view it within the context of what he sees. And a gracious and mature believer will try to disciple the person in blotting out the black dot.
(Again, I am not talking about a major sin here; we all of have black dots, but to the immature believer, that's all they will see; that black dot will dominate the page)
Again, coming from the northeast, I didn't have a wealth of churches from which to choose; you attended where you could. Thus, my experience is limited...
Are smaller churches usually dominated by immature believers, or is this question too generalized to answer?
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