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It appears that no credible, objective historian or archeologist hold to the idea that the Exodus happened, at least, in the way the bible describes it with its grand tale. I for one, however, believe that it has some historical BASIS, but as the Jewish writers were fond to do (like other ancient writers), was to exaggerate and embellish for the sole purpose of building a grand story to justify later claims that they (the Jews) were indeed God's chosen people.
In my opinion, when all the fat is stripped away, the more likely explanation is that a group of Canaanite migrant workers, known as Hebrews, came to reside in Egypt and grew into a relatively sizeable community. In Trumpian fashion, a new Pharaoh came to power who appears not to have been too fond of their community. He may have antagonized them leading to a voice to rise among them who we would call Moses. At some point along the way, the Egyptians grew tired of them and threw them out of the country, seemingly, at some point of national crisis, perhaps some devastating natural disasters. However, on the way out, the Hebrews [violently] STOLE Egyptian possessions (see Exodus 12:35-36).
The writer, in one breath presents the idea that the Israelite god forced Pharaoh to let the Hebrews go leading to him issuing their release, yet once they leave, we are told that Pharaoh had to be briefed about these [alleged] millions of people leaving his country without his knowledge as if he had no idea he gave them permission to leave. So, he pursues them to re-enslave them, if the writer is to be believed, but a better explanation might be that he was pursuing them for plundering Egypt in what appears to be, an invasion type despoiling.
As the story continues, we are told that God miraculously deliver the Israelites, but this same mighty god, leads them on the "scenic route" through a dangerous wilderness as opposed to a direct route which leads me to believe, these marauders managed to evade their pursuers by disappearing into the wilderness and desert which brings them to the outskirts of Canaan where they invade the land from the hill country on the propaganda idea that the land was promised to their ancestor, Abraham and that the local people were demonic, child sacrificing sex perverts who served no purpose in living.
The traditional story would have us believe that the Hebrews were in Egypt for about 400 years and at the time of the Exodus numbered more than 2 million. Yet in the 400 year and 40 years in the desert they left no archeological footprint at all, no graves, artifacts, or Egyptian writings related to what would have been about a third of their total workforce. As one archeologist noted, not even a single broken piece of pottery. Much of the archeology of the period has been researched by researchers associated with Tel Aviv University since 1967.
A good current reference is:
From the New York Times:
The Bible Unearthed
Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts
By ISRAEL FINKELSTEIN and NEIL ASHER SILBERMA
“In the last few decades scholarly opinions about the dates and authorship of these individual sources have varied wildly. While some scholars argue that the texts were composed and edited during the existence of the united monarchy and the kingdoms of Judah and Israel (C. 1000-586 BCE), others insist that they were late compositions, collected and edited by priests and scribes during the Babylonian exile and the restoration (in the sixth and fifth centuries), or even as late as the Hellenistic period (fourth-second centuries BCE). Yet all agree that the Pentateuch is not a single, seamless composition but a patchwork of different sources, each written under different historical circumstances to express different religious or political viewpoints.”
You might also enjoy the following You Tube presentation based on the reference I listed.
Bible Unearthed Discoveries of Old versions of the bible) - YouTube
It appears that no credible, objective historian or archeologist hold to the idea that the Exodus happened, at least, in the way the bible describes it with its grand tale. I for one, however, believe that it has some historical BASIS, but as the Jewish writers were fond to do (like other ancient writers), was to exaggerate and embellish for the sole purpose of building a grand story to justify later claims that they (the Jews) were indeed God's chosen people.
In my opinion, when all the fat is stripped away, the more likely explanation is that a group of Canaanite migrant workers, known as Hebrews, came to reside in Egypt and grew into a relatively sizeable community. In Trumpian fashion, a new Pharaoh came to power who appears not to have been too fond of their community. He may have antagonized them leading to a voice to rise among them who we would call Moses. At some point along the way, the Egyptians grew tired of them and threw them out of the country, seemingly, at some point of national crisis, perhaps some devastating natural disasters. However, on the way out, the Hebrews [violently] STOLE Egyptian possessions (see Exodus 12:35-36).
The writer, in one breath presents the idea that the Israelite god forced Pharaoh to let the Hebrews go leading to him issuing their release, yet once they leave, we are told that Pharaoh had to be briefed about these [alleged] millions of people leaving his country without his knowledge as if he had no idea he gave them permission to leave. So, he pursues them to re-enslave them, if the writer is to be believed, but a better explanation might be that he was pursuing them for plundering Egypt in what appears to be, an invasion type despoiling.
As the story continues, we are told that God miraculously deliver the Israelites, but this same mighty god, leads them on the "scenic route" through a dangerous wilderness as opposed to a direct route which leads me to believe, these marauders managed to evade their pursuers by disappearing into the wilderness and desert which brings them to the outskirts of Canaan where they invade the land from the hill country on the propaganda idea that the land was promised to their ancestor, Abraham and that the local people were demonic, child sacrificing sex perverts who served no purpose in living.
No sure on how you are basing your assumptions.
You mention Exodus 12.
Exodus 12:35-36 - Now the sons of Israel had done according to the word of Moses, for they had requested from the Egyptians articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing; 36 and the LORD had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have their request. Thus they plundered the Egyptians.
Where are you getting the idea that items were violently taken?
You mentioned Pharaoh not having knowledge of them leaving the country.
Exodus 14:5 - When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, Pharaoh and his servants had a change of heart toward the people, and they said, "What is this we have done, that we have let Israel go from serving us?"
He was informed that they had actually departed, and had a change of heart. I don't see the problem.
Exodus 12:35-36 - Now the sons of Israel had done according to the word of Moses, for they had requested from the Egyptians articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing; 36 and the LORD had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have their request. Thus they plundered the Egyptians.
Where are you getting the idea that items were violently taken?
You mentioned Pharaoh not having knowledge of them leaving the country.
Exodus 14:5 - When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, Pharaoh and his servants had a change of heart toward the people, and they said, "What is this we have done, that we have let Israel go from serving us?"
He was informed that they had actually departed, and had a change of heart. I don't see the problem.
plun·der
ˈpləndər/Submit
verb
1. steal goods from (a place or person), typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder.
"looters moved into the disaster area to plunder stores"
synonyms: pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape
"they plundered the countryside"
noun
1. the violent and dishonest acquisition of property.
"the farmers suffered the inhumanity and indignities of pillage and plunder"
synonyms: looting, pillaging, plundering, raiding, ransacking, devastation, sacking; literaryrapine
"the plunder of the villages"
"...and the Lord had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked. Thus they despoiled the Egyptians." ~ Exodus 12:36
de·spoil
dəˈspoil/
verb
steal or violently remove valuable or attractive possessions from; plunder.
"the church was despoiled of its marble wall covering"
synonyms: plunder, pillage, rob, ravage, raid, ransack, rape, loot, sack
And he [Pharaoh] summoned Moses and Aaron by night, and said, “Rise up, go forth from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said. Take your flocks and your herds, as you have said, and be gone; and bless me also!” And the Egyptians were urgent with the people, to send them out of the land in haste; for they said, “We are all dead men.” ~ Exodus 12:31, 32 and 33
When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, the mind of Pharaoh and his servants was changed toward the people... ~Exodus 14:5
On that last part, I will give Pharaoh the benefit of the doubt that he let the people go, then was told they were all gone and then changed his mind about letting them go as opposed to recognizing a crime was committed and pursued them to bring them to some sort of justice which seems like the more likely scenario is this story has ANY credibility to it.
plun·der
ˈpləndər/Submit
verb
1. steal goods from (a place or person), typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder.
"looters moved into the disaster area to plunder stores"
synonyms: pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape
"they plundered the countryside"
noun
1. the violent and dishonest acquisition of property.
"the farmers suffered the inhumanity and indignities of pillage and plunder"
synonyms: looting, pillaging, plundering, raiding, ransacking, devastation, sacking; literaryrapine
"the plunder of the villages"
"...and the Lord had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked. Thus they despoiled the Egyptians." ~ Exodus 12:36
de·spoil
dəˈspoil/
verb
steal or violently remove valuable or attractive possessions from; plunder.
"the church was despoiled of its marble wall covering"
synonyms: plunder, pillage, rob, ravage, raid, ransack, rape, loot, sack
And he [Pharaoh] summoned Moses and Aaron by night, and said, “Rise up, go forth from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said. Take your flocks and your herds, as you have said, and be gone; and bless me also!” And the Egyptians were urgent with the people, to send them out of the land in haste; for they said, “We are all dead men.” ~ Exodus 12:31, 32 and 33
Israel made a request... the Egyptians gave them their request.
There is no indicator of it being a violent transaction.
This is what is see happening. Egypt had just went through the ten plagues... the last of which took the life of the oldest child and animal. They knew it was the God of Moses and Israel that was responsible. So they were probably scared to death of those people - so that when Israel made the request, the Egyptians gave them what they wanted, and were glad to see them gone.
Israel made a request... the Egyptians gave them their request.
There is no indicator of it being a violent transaction.
This is what is see happening. Egypt had just went through the ten plagues... the last of which took the life of the oldest child and animal. They knew it was the God of Moses and Israel that was responsible. So they were probably scared to death of those people - so that when Israel made the request, the Egyptians gave them what they wanted, and were glad to see them gone.
Did you see the actual definitions of the words ("plunder" and "despoiled") used? Which one was it? The Egyptians just felt mighty generous out of fear or the Israelites TOOK Egyptian possessions violently? Was the author having a problem keeping his story straight?
Did you see the actual definitions of the words ("plunder" and "despoiled") used? Which one was it? The Egyptians just felt mighty generous out of fear or the Israelites TOOK Egyptian possessions violently? Was the author having a problem keeping his story straight?
I am not implying that it was a totally peaceable transfer. But I am not going to read violence into that.
Many seem look for any excuse to discredit the parts of Scripture they don't understand. For example, they overlook vast archaeological, prophetic, scientific, literary and other evidence for almost every book in the Bible, ... and instead, draw sweeping conclusions about missing evidence of a single event. This myopic view only adds to the evidence of a personal bias against Scripture/ the Bible and the things of God.
True, there are few archaeological artifacts that ‘prove’ the Jewish descendants of Jacob were enslaved in Egypt for 400-years, or departed in a mass Exodus of slaves around 1500 B.C. and spent 40-years in the wilderness. Some Egyptian archaeological evidence has suggested that a large Semitic slave population existed in Egypt about the 12th dynasty in the delta cities of Kahun and Gorob, Bubastic, Qantir and Ramses. A papyrus slave list, also contains 48 of 77 names typical of a "Semitic group from the Northwest." Another record from the 13th dynasty, during the reign of Neferhotep I, reports the Semitic slaves suddenly departed from Tel ed-Daba and Kahun.)
“Minimalists” often insist “no statement in any of the 66-books of Scripture written over 1500-years by 40-different writers can be accepted as true, without corroborating non-Biblical data.” From this, they quickly conclude that the lack of 3,800-year old Egyptian artifacts from an Jewish sub-culture of slaves, "proves" the Exodus and related events never happened. But, as with most Scriptural truths, there is no "burden of proof" on God and Christians. Instead, there is a "burden of belief" on mankind. God's truth and ways do not depend on human belief, agreement or approval.
Exodus 1 describes the migration of seventy nomadic descendants of Jacob (and their families) to Egypt about 1900 BC, because Egypt had grain and the rest of the land was suffering drought and famine. For the following 400-years, the descendants of Jacob were enslaved in Egypt, while their number grew to over a million, (compared with an Egyptian population of about 4-6 million). The Pharaoh instituted harsh measures to control the burgeoning population of 600 thousand male Jewish slaves, out of fear they could join Egypt’s enemies and become a major threat.
These were slaves, not a ‘nation within a nation’ with a legacy recorded on stone monuments or pyramids for posterity. These slaves had no organized nation, government, leaders, cities, historical archives, infrastructure or foundation for a recorded history, except what might have been recorded by their Egyptian masters. ---Given the circumstances of their departure and the power of the Pharaohs in Egypt, is it surprising that the defeat of Pharaoh’s army by “the God of slaves,” might not have been prominently etched into public monuments or ‘steles?’ (The Pharaohs often even obliterated the record of a prior Pharaoh’s dynasty!).
Like 4-million American slaves only 200-years ago, Israelite slaves also had few ‘slave-distinct' possessions or artifacts to mark their passing 3800-years later! Why is the 3800-year old Scripture record of Israel’s slavery and Exodus from Egypt, automatically considered invalid? -, yet, the opinions of a non-believers 3,800-years later, considered authoritative? (The claim that "scholars have concluded it never happened" is nonsense! Who are these Bible scholars? ... or are they simply educated non-believers for whom not even a full-color video of the slaves leaving Egypt through the parting Red Sea ... would be considered credible evidence.
Last edited by jghorton; 08-05-2016 at 02:29 PM..
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The Exodus story isn't credible.
