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But not in the way you are insisting they must. They, as I understand them, see those books as largely progressive in human thought and understanding ABOUT God, and NOT as absolutes from God. Can you see the difference between that and those who hold to it as God's binding and exclusive WORD to humanity?
Considering the bibles flaws, new and old testaments, I just see no reason to consider any of it real or relevant. You may aspire to the philosophy of Jesus, but I do not since he is not divine.
Yes, you are the Trump (analogy) of spiritual life. Only you hold truth. Men who have spent their entire lives studying God's word and proclaiming it from the pulpit can teach you nothing, because like Trump, you know more than the generals do about spiritual life.
You have made it abundantly clear that you are the sole arbiter of other people's souls. You have become anathema to the God of love with that air of smarminess. I declare you a consummate liar for proclaiming Chip Brogden's message and claiming it as your "special" revelation 30 years prior.
When you have studied SERIOUSLY you may be taken more seriously. But your pride has brought you to the edge of a cliff. Kierkegaard declared those with real faith take a gigantic LEAP of faith. He did, AFTER he attended seminary. but you have too much hubris to think revelation comes to any but you.
Until then we color you
Selah!
Warden, try to keep in mind she's not well. I've been trying to keep that uppermost in my mind when reading her pseudo-spiritual bible-babble.
Hannibal, my friend - bless his thumping Texas heart - knows that sometimes he's channeling from somewhere to the left of left field.
But Rbbi1 believes deeply that her wrongness is correct. My main concern with people like her is whether or not young people/children are under her control. She admits to 60, which feels true, so any remaining children will be adults. I understand she lost a daughter. Which is the worst tragedy I believe can befall a person. Certainly, should I have to bury one of my boys, I'd be a basket case.
Warden, try to keep in mind she's not well. I've been trying to keep that uppermost in my mind when reading her pseudo-spiritual bible-babble.
Hannibal, my friend - bless his thumping Texas heart - knows that sometimes he's channeling from somewhere to the left of left field.
But Rbbi1 believes deeply that her wrongness is correct. My main concern with people like her is whether or not young people/children are under her control. She admits to 60, which feels true, so any remaining children will be adults. I understand she lost a daughter. Which is the worst tragedy I believe can befall a person. Certainly, should I have to bury one of my boys, I'd be a basket case.
R.
Would only Love and nurture a garden with a heavenly dew.
Just as each of us are loyal to each new and old passing of honor.
I'll tell you a secret about the hard faced man.
He is the one who breaks hard hearts.
You have probably fellowshipped in this forum for a given time.
Which I give thanks always to our Lord for bringing you here.
When I first visited this forum I became very discouraged and spoke out to one of my kin.
I told him how painfull it was to reach out to athiest knowing I had held the mantle.
And he was stronger than I in wisdom.
He told me, ("Stay the course, they would not be there if they weren't searching.")
With this single sentence of encouragement I have stayed.
And never forgoten where I came from in faith.
R.
Would only Love and nurture a garden with a heavenly dew.
Just as each of us are loyal to each new and old passing of honor.
I'll tell you a secret about the hard faced man.
He is the one who breaks hard hearts.
You have probably fellowshipped in this forum for a given time.
Which I give thanks always to our Lord for bringing you here.
When I first visited this forum I became very discouraged and spoke out to one of my kin.
I told him how painfull it was to reach out to athiest knowing I had held the mantle.
And he was stronger than I in wisdom.
He told me, ("Stay the course, they would not be there if they weren't searching.")
With this single sentence of encouragement I have stayed.
And never forgoten where I came from in faith.
Warden, try to keep in mind she's not well. I've been trying to keep that uppermost in my mind when reading her pseudo-spiritual bible-babble.
Hannibal, my friend - bless his thumping Texas heart - knows that sometimes he's channeling from somewhere to the left of left field.
But Rbbi1 believes deeply that her wrongness is correct. My main concern with people like her is whether or not young people/children are under her control. She admits to 60, which feels true, so any remaining children will be adults. I understand she lost a daughter. Which is the worst tragedy I believe can befall a person. Certainly, should I have to bury one of my boys, I'd be a basket case.
Always remember this.
An angel of the Lord is with you.
Only one person here asked for my name. And I gave it freely.
Why limit yourself to only Chip Brogden? There are likely a host of others out there as well. But not being a liar, I maintain that just because he talks about the Tabernacle (as does Hebrews) doesn't mean I got a thing from him or any other man. My testimony is that I didn't know who had any truth and so I went straight to the Source once I read that His Spirit could and would teach us. Just because you've lived on the words of men, doesn't mean everyone has.
And I never said you didn't have spiritual experiences. I said you need to press in and let the Spirit baptize you and teach you. Big difference. But since you are content to sit in the outer court and scratch yourself with potsherds, be my guest. There is nothing wrong per se with initial salvation experience, if you don't want any more of G-d than what you have. Stop trying to limit everyone else to your measure.
I also never said people have to get to the inner sanctuary to be saved, a point both I and Hannibal have made abundantly clear. When you have studied via the SPIRIT, to show yourself approved, we can talk. Until then, I leave you to your imaginations. Peace
I took the time to READ what your earthly master wrote. You won't even attempt to read anything I've suggested--showing once again that your closed heart is only exceeded by a closed mind.
You never went to any Source if you stopped with what you thought you first gleaned. At best you got to kindergarten and felt that elementary school was a waste of time. If you actually HAD more of God, then you would be focused on the one thing that should have by now drilled down into that cold heart--LOVE.
But instead you continue to lift yourself above all others and be concerned that a man like me has shown you to be completely focused on you. When Christ comes into one's heart they are completely focused on others.
There are times reading the inspiring words of men that actual tears come to my eyes--whether it's in the Bible or a succinct thought placed directly by God into the writings of MODERN MEN!!
But since you are so hung up that I'm some sort of misogynist here is another book I have read and recommend, written by Professor Elizabeth A. Johnson, Professor of Theology at Fordham University. She has received numerous awards including the Louisville Grawemeyer Award in Religion for She Who Is (1993), the American Academy of Religion Award for Excellence in the in the study of religion for Friends of God and Prophets (1999), and the Book Award of the College Theology Society for Truly Our Sister (2004)
The book I recommend is Quest For The Living God, (2007). It traces different theologies and what their main purpose is. Since there are many, it is helpful for a truly spirit filled person to know what they are!!
Chapters include:
1. Ancient Story, New Chapter
2. Gracious Mystery, Ever Greater, Ever Nearer
3. The Crucified God of Compassion
4. Liberating God of Life
5. God Acting Womanish
6. God Who Breaks Chains (with subsections on Black Liberation Theology and Womanist Survival Theology)
7. Accompanying God of Fiesta (it is impossible to speak of God to those of other cultures without knowing their position imo)
8. Generous God of the Religions
9. Creator Spirit in the Evolving World
10. Trinity: The Living God of Love
O foolish woman, you cannot even disavow what others believe if you do not know what it is and how it arose. Your continued refusal to even consider an education reminds me of the words of George Eliot who once wrote, "There's folks'd stand on their heads and then say the fault was in their boots."
Fundamentalists talk much of "justice." Martin Luther King explained justice this way:
"Justice is love correcting that which revolts against love." (Montgomery Bus Boycott speech, delivered at Holt Street Baptist Church, Dec. 5, 1955)
You are revolting against love, and have strayed from the path. Perhaps its the walls you have erected around your "inner sanctuary" that more and more sounds like a prison.
Why limit yourself to only Chip Brogden? There are likely a host of others out there as well. But not being a liar, I maintain that just because he talks about the Tabernacle (as does Hebrews) doesn't mean I got a thing from him or any other man. My testimony is that I didn't know who had any truth and so I went straight to the Source once I read that His Spirit could and would teach us. Just because you've lived on the words of men, doesn't mean everyone has.
And I never said you didn't have spiritual experiences. I said you need to press in and let the Spirit baptize you and teach you. Big difference. But since you are content to sit in the outer court and scratch yourself with potsherds, be my guest. There is nothing wrong per se with initial salvation experience, if you don't want any more of G-d than what you have. Stop trying to limit everyone else to your measure.
I also never said people have to get to the inner sanctuary to be saved, a point both I and Hannibal have made abundantly clear. When you have studied via the SPIRIT, to show yourself approved, we can talk. Until then, I leave you to your imaginations. Peace
You're a disciple of Chip Brogden, stealing his testimony and passing off his own writings to be yours. You like him are all about knowledge of the bible rather knowledge of the one it testifies of.
But not in the way you are insisting they must. They, as I understand them, see those books as largely progressive in human thought and understanding ABOUT God, and NOT as absolutes from God. Can you see the difference between that and those who hold to it as God's binding and exclusive WORD to humanity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Considering the bibles flaws, new and old testaments, I just see no reason to consider any of it real or relevant. You may aspire to the philosophy of Jesus, but I do not since he is not divine.
Okay, but you've switched topics now. People were simply telling you that there were Christians who believed slavery was wrong, and who were instrumental in the fight against it, and their rational view of the bible allowed them to come to that conclusion. And you were arguing that those Christians lacked integrity because they didn't view the bible in the irrational all-or-nothing way that you insist is the only correct way to view it.
I wasn't asking you to consider any of the bible as "real" or relevant to you. But, it seems that perhaps you are still a slave to the fundamentalist view of the bible as 100% truth; you feel you must argue that it is 100% worthless in order to justify that you dismissed the Christian religion you belonged to as completely irrelevant to your life. You don't. You and I have every right to dismiss the things our religion taught us which we came to realize were nonsensical. On the other hand, our former religions' doctrines do not equal the bible.
You also seem to be claiming that if someone (Jesus) is not "divine" that that automatically makes all of their philosophy worthless as well. Is that really want you think? Have you never read or heard another human being's philosophy about life that you felt compelling to any degree? Or, hey, how about just your OWN philosophy of life? You're not divine, and I assume you don't think your philosophy is worthless for yourself, do you?
One thing is certain: the all-or-nothing philosophy of the bible is NOT a divine philosophy; it's one cooked up by humans and it is irrational. It makes complete sense to dismiss it.
Okay, but you've switched topics now. People were simply telling you that there were Christians who believed slavery was wrong, and who were instrumental in the fight against it, and their rational view of the bible allowed them to come to that conclusion. And you were arguing that those Christians lacked integrity because they didn't view the bible in the irrational all-or-nothing way that you insist is the only correct way to view it.
I wasn't asking you to consider any of the bible as "real" or relevant to you. But, it seems that perhaps you are still a slave to the fundamentalist view of the bible as 100% truth; you feel you must argue that it is 100% worthless in order to justify that you dismissed the Christian religion you belonged to as completely irrelevant to your life. You don't. You and I have every right to dismiss the things our religion taught us which we came to realize were nonsensical. On the other hand, our former religions' doctrines do not equal the bible.
You also seem to be claiming that if someone (Jesus) is not "divine" that that automatically makes all of their philosophy worthless as well. Is that really want you think? Have you never read or heard another human being's philosophy about life that you felt compelling to any degree? Or, hey, how about just your OWN philosophy of life? You're not divine, and I assume you don't think your philosophy is worthless for yourself, do you?
One thing is certain: the all-or-nothing philosophy of the bible is NOT a divine philosophy; it's one cooked up by humans and it is irrational. It makes complete sense to dismiss it.
Twisting may be the wrong word. As with most issues the bible can appear to be on different sides of the issue. I don't mean to appear to be attacking the integrity of those who claimed the bible was anti-slavery. Good for them they did. If I wanted the bible to say slavery was wrong, I could likely interpret some scriptures that way, but the fact is that the bible clearly sanctioned slavery.
And no, my not believing Jesus is divine does not mean that his philosophy is worthless. I just don't need to follow him to have these philosophical beliefs.
Because there is so much absurdity mixed with the good in the bible, I'm compelled to look elsewhere for answers and philosophies.
Twisting may be the wrong word. As with most issues the bible can appear to be on different sides of the issue. I don't mean to appear to be attacking the integrity of those who claimed the bible was anti-slavery. Good for them they did. If I wanted the bible to say slavery was wrong, I could likely interpret some scriptures that way, but the fact is that the bible clearly sanctioned slavery.
And no, my not believing Jesus is divine does not mean that his philosophy is worthless. I just don't need to follow him to have these philosophical beliefs.
Because there is so much absurdity mixed with the good in the bible, I'm compelled to look elsewhere for answers and philosophies.
I hear ya. When the bible as 100% truth got blown out of the water for me, in my mind, there was nowhere to go but atheism, since I'd been indoctrinated with the idea that no bible equals no god. It took me some time to recover from that abreaction of jettisoning everything I'd once believed as completely worthless. There was a definite period of grieving involved. As I've moved through that process into my "new normal", I've embraced my inner heathen, who is able to retain some of the things from my religious upbringing that fit into the view that resonates with and makes sense to me (my "working theory" is a God who is love), while discarding the unhealthy and irrational stuff, and holding the stuff that I don't think matters either way in a state of suspension. Iow, not throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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