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i understand what you are saying, and agree, yet i doubt that anyone can come up with anything "new" there. if one comes to you, holler!
i'm reading Psalms in MSG right now, pretty cool Psalm 35 - MSG - Bible Study Tools
Jesus never claimed he had all truth in the way bible fundamentalist describe truth.
I remember an American teacher commenting on while he was in Germany, the believers were drinking beer like Americans drink coffee, he said some of the group with him where aghast by this, i'm sure the Germans would have something to say about the amount of Coffee Americans drink and how they can't leave the house without it and probably have the same reaction. When the scriptures what fundamentalists call truth says "Everything is permissible, but not everything is helpful. Everything is permissible, but not everything builds up".
Whose truth is right, the American coffee drinkers or the German beer guzzlers?.
God ends the kingdom of Israel but says he will never give up on Judah.
Jeremiah 3 ~ God divorces the ten tribes of Israel called Ephraim and known as the kingdom of Israel, not the kingdom of Judah.
Israel's and Judah's Unfaithfulness 6The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. 10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
so why is Ephraim divorced and not Judah, if Judah committed the same sins? ty
Jesus never claimed he had all truth in the way bible fundamentalist describe truth.
I remember an American teacher commenting on while he was in Germany, the believers were drinking beer like Americans drink coffee, he said some of the group with him where aghast by this, i'm sure the Germans would have something to say about the amount of Coffee Americans drink and how they can't leave the house without it and probably have the same reaction. When the scriptures what fundamentalists call truth says "Everything is permissible, but not everything is helpful. Everything is permissible, but not everything builds up".
Whose truth is right, the American coffee drinkers or the German beer guzzlers?.
ha, what a trip, i am just lately grilling an OP pastor over beer, and made the exact same case! lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep
man, very well put. Now am i going to go grab a bottle of beer, no. But this discussion would hardly make sense to a German OP pastor; if you know one, GS, go try it and see. He is going to think you are from Mars lol.
but i don't see how this addresses the other thing, sorry
so why is Ephraim divorced and not Judah, if Judah committed the same sins? ty
Judah did nothing to the Extent that Israel had done. 700 years before Christ, God ended the Northern kingdom and they turned into gentiles as they had already done by their own hands. about 100 years after that, God did deal with Judah, he had the Temple in Jerusalem fired, and destroyed, a third of those people were killed and the rest taken into Babylon where they were refined and after they came out of Babylon, they stayed away from Paganism. The fact that we know who Judah is, it tells us that God didn't ever give up on them and they are still with God. Not only that, you and I are living in the days of the last Exodus which is still happening where God made something completely impossible happen. No people have ever lost their land to then retain it again, but God said he would gather them back in the last days and make them strong and there they are. Nobody would have ever believed Judah could ever return because it was simply impossible, and only made possible through the brutal acts of Hitler, the world was so shocked, the league of nations decided to hand back the land and they don't even have ten percent of the land given back to them, piece by piece they give up land for peace, and yet the world still wants to kill them.
"so why is Ephraim divorced and not Judah, if Judah committed the same sins? ty"
because maybe even
"feignedly" kind of counts with God compared to the rest of the world who didn't even give him that much.
I think some husbands have times when they might understand how "feignedly" is good enough and way better than the alternatives.. ! I mean at least she was trying to talk to him and not completely ignoring him !
Judah did nothing to the Extent that Israel had done. 700 years before Christ, God ended the Northern kingdom and they turned into gentiles as they had already done by their own hands. about 100 years after that, God did deal with Judah, he had the Temple in Jerusalem fired, and destroyed, a third of those people were killed and the rest taken into Babylon where they were refined and after they came out of Babylon, they stayed away from Paganism. The fact that we know who Judah is, it tells us that God didn't ever give up on them and they are still with God. Not only that, you and I are living in the days of the last Exodus which is still happening where God made something completely impossible happen. No people have ever lost their land to then retain it again, but God said he would gather them back in the last days and make them strong and there they are. Nobody would have ever believed Judah could ever return because it was simply impossible, and only made possible through the brutal acts of Hitler, the world was so shocked, the league of nations decided to hand back the land and they don't even have ten percent of the land given back to them, piece by piece they give up land for peace, and yet the world still wants to kill them.
ah, well, i have another pov there, for what it's worth; and actually i'm kind of surprised you still hold that one!
If the Bible is a Book about Spirit, using worldly terms as a lexicon, then fig tree, budding might be seen as having nothing to do with a temporal state of Israel, but an expression of the Church, as witnessed by God's references to nations, as distinct from countries. In this context, it might also be seen that "the league of nations decided to hand back the land," the guys who conflate countries with nations (people), and "they don't even have ten percent of the land given back to them" is not true, go look at a map, wadr, and "piece by piece they give up land for peace" is actually the exact opposite of what actually occurred, is occurring, because they started out with 10% or whatever, true enough, but, even though they are the ones moaning that they are constantly being characterized as though "they give up land for peace," it is actually 180 away from what is really going on, which i guess i said already, and even @ "yet the world still wants to kill them," doesn't this contradict that the LofN gave them back the country, someone else's land, that God saw fit to oust them from? And don't most of the developed world--if not all of it--pretty much love Ashkenazi Jews, send them $Billions a year, for their country, which was given to them by taking from someone else, violently?
Now, lest you get the wrong impression, i like Jews, too, i have a bunch of Messianic friends i visit @ Shemen Sasson, i stay with Jews when i go there, etc, but i gotta say, they aren't the same Jews right now rioting for "Kill them all" even if they--or anyway many or even most of their peers--do express to me, in many subtle ways, that they do not perceive me, a Christian, in the same way that i and most 'developed' world people perceive them, as in "with affection," in fact you are perceived by them exactly like any other Goyim, (Gentile, Muslim, et al) is perceived, even if they recognize--at Shemen Sasson, that is, and maybe among quite a few of the younger Jews, who are going to jail in protest--that they are not being righteous in this perspective, and labor to overcome it.
so i suggest that maybe we are all subject to being spun, some kind of way, that can often be really hard to see, because it is instilled from birth as being axiomatic, an accepted premise, like you need air to breathe, when there are always two sides to every story, huh, and in giving up all that land for peace that i'm not finding anywhere--except on posters and in the "news"--note that we are talking about a country that is given the cutting edge, latest equipment to kill people with--who are incidentally a nation within that country, their own citizens--who have only rocks, essentially, to use as weapons themselves.
And reflect upon how, regardless of our point of view, God always seems to end up on the side of the oppressed, huh. So you might examine your premises here, elder, i'm just sayin', funny that we got 3 goin' on here, and all 3 each have an individual relationship, an agreement if you will, with each of the others, so 3 separate "agreements," which maybe 2, or at least 1, is being obscured somehow. just sayin.
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even if they--or anyway many or even most of their peers--do express to me, in many subtle ways, that they do not perceive me, a Christian, in the same way that i and most 'developed' world people perceive them, as in "with affection," in fact you are perceived by them exactly like any other Goyim, (Gentile, Muslim, et al) is perceived, even if they recognize--at Shemen Sasson, that is, and maybe among quite a few of the younger Jews, who are going to jail in protest--that they are not being righteous in this perspective, and labor to overcome it.
