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So what is the point of prayer here? Do you think that asking God to do something he wasn't planning on doing will somehow convince him to do so? I read one poster who said that he prays for God's will to be done. Do you think God would do anything else, other than his will? Have you not noticed that your prayers go unanswered at about the same rate as chance, wishing upon a star, or rubbing a rabbit's foot? These all have the same chances of coming true or being answered.
I've enjoyed debating and arguing and defending the faith for awhile on these boards. A thought occurred to me....are we praying for the atheists and trolls that frequent the board?
Have you prayed that God would move in them and turn their hostility into faith?
No one has to worry about going to H E double hockey sticks(for you Canadians) because it just froze over. I actually agree with you Viz. The problem with a Christian prayer for an atheist is when you tell us you are doing it. We know our bibles so when you say you are praying for us we know that is really just a big *********. It's not us you are praying for it's for your own ego. You get to tell us off then act all offended when we call you out on it.
Matthew 6 4so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 5And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their reward. 6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
and if you are not in a good enough space to do it for God then this might help you
Romans 12
…19Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.…
Last edited by L8Gr8Apost8; 08-30-2016 at 02:33 PM..
Reason: I did NOT use the F word!!!!!!!
So what is the point of prayer here? Do you think that asking God to do something he wasn't planning on doing will somehow convince him to do so? I read one poster who said that he prays for God's will to be done. Do you think God would do anything else, other than his will? Have you not noticed that your prayers go unanswered at about the same rate as chance, wishing upon a star, or rubbing a rabbit's foot? These all have the same chances of coming true or being answered.
Fair question. I am happy to try to answer this since you are referring to what I said. Basically, when you include concepts like "Your will be done" in your prayer... you are recognizing God's sovereignty, you are telling God that you trust Him to work things together for our good, that you trust in His plan for you, and that you do not wish Him to subvert His brilliant plan in exchange for what your myopic human mind thinks is best at that time. We would be in an unbelievable mess if God just gave us all what we asked for, after all. He knows what we can't know.
It's basically a way of saying, I could be wrong here, and I trust your judgment, your plan for my life, but as best I understand it these are my needs/concerns/etc. right now. It is also an acknowledgment that we trust Him even when things come upon us that we don't understand or make us angry.
This is why the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13 says to pray "Your will be done," and this is why Jesus in the Garden prayed as follows (Matthew 26:39): "And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.'"
Here is some teaching from Greg Laurie on this topic that I found elucidating: "The primary objective of prayer is to align our will with the will of God. That is when we will see our prayers answered in the affirmative. It has been said that prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance; it is laying hold of His willingness. Prayer is not getting our will in Heaven; it is getting God's will on Earth. ... Then, [if] we don't get the answer in the affirmative, we conclude that it must not be God's will. But Jesus was effectively saying [in Luke 11], 'Keep asking, keep seeking, and keep knocking.'"
Happy to answer this ... basically, when you include concepts like "Your will be done" in your prayer... you are recognizing God's sovereignty, you are telling God that you trust Him to work things together for our good, that you trust in His plan for you, and that you do not wish Him to subvert His brilliant plan in exchange for what your myopic human mind thinks is best at that time. We would be in an unbelievable mess if God just gave us all what we asked for, after all. He knows what we can't know.
It's basically a way of saying, I could be wrong here, and I trust your judgment, your plan for my life, but as best I understand it these are my needs/concerns/etc. right now. It is also an acknowledgment that we trust Him even when things come upon us that we don't understand or make us angry.
This is why the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13 says to pray "Your will be done," and this is why Jesus in the Garden prayed as follows (Matthew 26:39): "And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.'"
Here is some teaching from Greg Laurie on this topic that I found elucidating: "The primary objective of prayer is to align our will with the will of God. That is when we will see our prayers answered in the affirmative. It has been said that prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance; it is laying hold of His willingness. Prayer is not getting our will in Heaven; it is getting God's will on Earth. ... Then, [if] we don't get the answer in the affirmative, we conclude that it must not be God's will. But Jesus was effectively saying [in Luke 11], 'Keep asking, keep seeking, and keep knocking.'"
Thanks. I understand all of this, and it's a relatively reasonable thing to do, but what would be the purpose of praying for the non-believer to be saved, or the health or safe travels for a loved one? According to the Bible, God knows your thought, desires, needs, and even whether or not you trust in him and/or his plan, so prayer is only for the one praying and has nothing to do with God or the one being prayed for. Therefore, it seems that prayer should be a private matter and not used in public, as the Bible states.
Laurie's statement seems to be the standard cop-out, giving an excuse for why one's prayer isn't answered in the affirmative, though the Bible promises that what you ask for you will receive.
I've enjoyed debating and arguing and defending the faith for awhile on these boards. A thought occurred to me....are we praying for the atheists and trolls that frequent the board?
Have you prayed that God would move in them and turn their hostility into faith?
At times. I have also prayed for help not to respond as they do.
Thanks. I understand all of this, and it's a relatively reasonable thing to do, but what would be the purpose of praying for the non-believer to be saved, or the health or safe travels for a loved one? According to the Bible, God knows your thought, desires, needs, and even whether or not you trust in him and/or his plan, so prayer is only for the one praying and has nothing to do with God or the one being prayed for. Therefore, it seems that prayer should be a private matter and not used in public, as the Bible states.
Laurie's statement seems to be the standard cop-out, giving an excuse for why one's prayer isn't answered in the affirmative, though the Bible promises that what you ask for you will receive.
The prayers Vizio mentioned are private or should be. Public prayers are usually at a meeting or funeral.
Oh, we are told ONLY that which is doing and requesting what is in harmony with God's will is going to get answered, not everything we pray for.
John 9:31 31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 John 3:22 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1 John 5:14 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
He wants to hear from us and will answer IF we are doing so properly and with the right motive AND are living as best we can ... His way.
I've enjoyed debating and arguing and defending the faith for awhile on these boards. A thought occurred to me....are we praying for the atheists and trolls that frequent the board?
Have you prayed that God would move in them and turn their hostility into faith?
Since it appears you will most likely get more responses from the atheists and trolls with whom you seem to share a love-hate relationship with, I decided to jump in sort of in your defense. Yes when I pray my daily prayer, I first ask for my own peace of mind, then the health and well-being of my wife, children and grandchildren. Then I ask the Everlasting Almighty to bless, and show mercy upon, and to cover with His grace, all the other inhabitants of this earth. Since I believe we all are his creation, I also believe everyone should have the grace of God. Amen
I have a vague feeling that Christians who pray for their children to be safe do so all the while holding their collective breaths until another sun sets, lest they be among those thousands of parents who prayed that morning for the children and then got the tragic news from the police their child was raped and murdered.
Quote:
Wilson Chowdhry, chairman of the BPCA, said it is estimated that 700 Christian girls are kidnapped raped and forced into Islamic marriage every year in Pakistan.
If the majority of your posts are to denigrate and mock Christians, that should say a lot to you.
Indeed.
Prayer never hurts, but will prayer #1001 work when the first 1000 didn't? Who knows, but not everyone is seeking God, or knocking on the door. Many reject the Gospel, and will go their graves doing so. Paul prayed for the Romans, and in the end they killed him anyway. All, except one, apostles were all killed by the people they prayed for, although they knew that most of them had hardened their hearts against the truth. At the same time Jesus had taught them to dust their sandals, and to not throw pearls to the swine.
So, there is a balance between these verses:
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet"
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
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