Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Notice it doesn't say "perservere to the end to earn salvation". It simply says that those that do are the ones that are saved.
It does say or implies salvation is earned. Just as believing is doing works.
Jesus was all about works. Paul made up his own theology to his destruction.
"He who believes in me shall do the works I do"
"My brother's mother and sisters hear the word of God and do it."
"My brother's mother and sisters do the will of my heavenly Father."
"Enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction and many choose it but the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life and few there are who find it."
I am the gate anyone who enters by me will be saved.
It does say or implies salvation is earned. Just as believing is doing works.
No. It really doesn't. By Grace we are saved through faith, and that is not our own, but a gift from God, not by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph 2:8-9). How do you account for that passage? It is NOT earned. It is grace alone. ONLY through grace alone.
Read Galatians 3. It might make you think a bit.
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected bya the flesh? 4Did you sufferb so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?"
In 5:12 Paul even goes on to say that he wishes those that were preaching the idea of keeping their salvation by works would not only circumcise themselves, but cut DOWN through and cut their manhood off.
He couldn't be more clear. You do not keep your salvation by ANYTHING you do.
Quote:
Jesus was all about works. Paul made up his own theology to his destruction.
"He who believes in me shall do the works I do"
"My brother's mother and sisters hear the word of God and do it."
"My brother's mother and sisters do the will of my heavenly Father."
And the will of the Father is to believe in the one he sent -- Jesus. (John 6:40)
Quote:
"Enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction and many choose it but the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life and few there are who find it."
Quote:
I am the gate anyone who enters by me will be saved.
Yes--Jesus is the narrow gate. Not your works. And most people will trust in their own works instead of Jesus.
Let me just ask: If you don't believe Paul was right....what makes you believe the Gospel writers recorded the words of Jesus correctly?
It does say or implies salvation is earned. Just as believing is doing works.
Jesus was all about works.Paul made up his own theology to his destruction..
That is flat out not true.
Jesus said the opposite: John 6:29
Jesus answered, “TheworkofGodisthis:tobelieve in the one he has sent.”
Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, “Yourfaith has saved you; go in peace.”
John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believesinme will live,
even though they die; and whoever lives bybelieving in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Rid yourself of the doctrine of demons.
Those who think they are worthy or can earn it will be sent to outer darkness as Jesus said they will be
That is flat out not true.
Jesus said the opposite: John 6:29
Jesus answered, “TheworkofGodisthis:tobelieve in the one he has sent.”
Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, “Yourfaith has saved you; go in peace.”
John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believesinme will live,
even though they die; and whoever lives bybelieving in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Rid yourself of the doctrine of demons.
Those who think they are worthy or can earn it will be sent to outer darkness as Jesus said they will be
Isnt believing a work ? If so grace is freely given to someone who has acted by believing. Hey, I am a good Lutherand and beleve in Gods great grace. Yet, if no work at all was necessary for salvation then salvation would be universal to non Christian believers. As we all know when people come to believe in Christ it is only after considerable prayer or reflection. To me that is a work, if only the only work needed for salvation. I believe the bible teaches we are saved by grace but works took a place. We dont obtain salvation by any work of a law, but its still a work to believe and accept Gods gift.
The Bible calls grace a "gift". All one has to do is respond.
John 4
10 Jesus said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”
I get gifts for my birthday and I do nothing..no response necessary..
Isnt believing a work ? If so grace is freely given to someone who has acted by believing. Hey, I am a good Lutherand and beleve in Gods great grace. Yet, if no work at all was necessary for salvation then salvation would be universal to non Christian believers. As we all know when people come to believe in Christ it is only after considerable prayer or reflection. To me that is a work, if only the only work needed for salvation. I believe the bible teaches we are saved by grace but works took a place. We dont obtain salvation by any work of a law, but its still a work to believe and accept Gods gift.
It IS interesting that the response to the fact that faith produces work is that truncated quote: "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." SO, either these people believe in salvation through work (the work of God is this: to believe...) OR there is more to "faith" than rhey are willing to admit.
Funny, huh?
No, Belief is not a work, but it IS a qualification for Grace, just as commitment to the Way Jesus taught is a part of that "belief."
No, he is saying that we qualify through that particular belief of the heart, or commitment. This is the qualification that the Romans writer saw. Whether it is the essential qualification is another matter. Qualify is not earn, just as the condition of the soil for the seeds is not work.
SO what must one believe to receive grace? That Jesus died for our sins? That Jesus rose from the dead?
Does one have to believe there is one true religion and only one true access to that religion?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
