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I posted this in another thread and I wanted to post it here as well to see what objections people may have to it:
I don't like the idea of eternal conscious torment nor am I 100% convinced that the Bible is saying that the unsaved will be tormented or even exist for eternity. But I have come to one possible idea as to why or with what justification God would allow eternal conscious torment.
The argument goes that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I think that's a good argument. But in our limited human capacity to understand all things, could we be wrong?
Maybe the way God sees it is that if a person was allowed to live on this earth for eternity, the person would commit an infinite and increasingly detestable number of sins and due to that God imposes an infinite punishment on the person.
The one problem I find with this argument is that I think most people, if given the option would have rather never been born than choose to suffer eternal torment, but it doesn't seem like that was ever an option.
I think that depends on what you think causes a person to commit harmful acts in the first place, and what allows people to change their behavior.
Yes, that's the way the Sola Fide crowd likes to spin those verses in order to avoid a "salvation by works" interpretation. According to Sola Fide Christians, the people on the Right are not aware of their good deeds, therefore the good deeds were not necessary for salvation.
A Pascal's Wager approach would assume the "worst" case, i.e. that good works ARE necessary for salvation, just to be on the safe side. If I do good works and they are not necessary for salvation, I may have wasted a little effort, but I still go to heaven. On the other hand, if good works are necessary for salvation and I don't do them, then I go to hell.
Or, stop thinking about "salvation" as having anything to do with avoiding punishment being imposed on you.
Religiousness in the broadest sense is used to control the masses, mostly from a position of fear.
Do you really think it is used to control the masses? This is one of the stranger things I have heard atheists say. I think many (most) feel that it is a sense of comfort to them. Can one deny that murder, stealing, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc are detrimental to the practitioner as well as society?
Do you really think it is used to control the masses? This is one of the stranger things I have heard atheists say. I think many (most) feel that it is a sense of comfort to them. Can one deny that murder, stealing, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc are detrimental to the practitioner as well as society?
It comforts you to think of people who are spiritually "sick" being snuffed out (or eternally tormented)? Wouldn't it be more comforting to think of them being healed?
It comforts you to think of people who are spiritually "sick" being snuffed out (or eternally tormented)? Wouldn't it be more comforting to think of them being healed?
I never said that people being eternally tormented was comforting to me. Thinking of people being healed is precisely what I think is comforting to people. That and spending eternity in a place where there are no more problems (or evil).
Do you not see it for yourself, the left mimics the right's question of 'when' ... probably hoping for no less of the same results but obviously to no avail.
This notion of "God is love ... and that's all folks" has never existed within the truth.
I really have no idea what you're talking about. I guess you assume that passage is talking about people ending up in eternal hell, thereby nullifying the idea that God is love. I disagree that the passage indicates any such thing.
God is love.
God is light.
God is life.
Would you agree?
When we act out of harmony with love (God), Twin, that means there is some darkness (some damage) within us that is prohibiting us from experiencing abundant life in that area of our lives, as well as negatively impacting those around us. That's not something to take lightly. It can be a living hell.
I never said that people being eternally tormented was comforting to me. Thinking of people being healed is precisely what I think is comforting to people. That and spending eternity in a place where there are no more problems (or evil).
So Cuja, if the thought of healing is comforting to you, how much more your Heavenly Father. Or on the other hand where do you feel those thoughts of comforting originate ?.
But the Bible says God murdered most of humanity in a global flood, killed children with a bear attack, caused two early Christians to be eaten by worms, killed all the firstborn in Egypt to make a point, etc. The Bible also says God will torture most of humanity for eternity for the "crime" of not believing he exists in the first place.
So how do you reconcile the Biblical claim that "God is Love" with all of the bloodthirsty behavior in other parts of the Bible? Is God like a jealous lover who goes into a fit of rage at the thought that someone might not love him in return?
This does seem harsh, not disputing that for one minute.
Leaving behind "a book" and expecting everyone to know it by chance, or otherwise, would not hold up in any court of law.
Then you must a be a "Bible believing Christian" as well, rules out most of the worlds population who may still worship God (just not "God of the Bible") as having any hope of being saved.
And then Fundamentalists look at most other Christians as not saved to boot, as having "a false God", or worse - "Satan is their God" , or others merely as Pagans, and have no hesitation in condemning them to Hell. (thank God they are NOT God)
This literally condemns 96% of the worlds population to Hell.
The madness of Hell is a complex one.
So Cuja, if the thought of healing is comforting to you, how much more your Heavenly Father. Or on the other hand where do you feel those thoughts of comforting originate ?.
I mean that people feel comforted by their religion (whatever that may be) because they have found in it a source of healing. They have found something that gives them hope and maybe a way to overcome the inner struggle against oneself.
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