Free will and what it implies for in Christianity (believing, children, study)

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Yep. The sin focus is extremely dominant in Christianity despite the fact that God is NOT counting our sins against us if we repent of them and love God and each other every day. It is that agape love that God expects from us.

amen. then sin and redemption--while still significant--cease to be the (navel-gazing) central focus. You are doing stuff. and even messing up sometimes, misunderstandings or whatever, so what. sorry and forgive and move on. def not the overriding subject of virtually every social intercourse, yikes.

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Yep. The sin focus is extremely dominant in Christianity despite the fact that God is NOT counting our sins against us if we repent of them and love God and each other every day. It is that agape love that God expects from us.

god expects you to be just as you are right now. He doesn't hold you to the 'sin of the skin" because once the skin is gone you will see the truth of what it did. It acted just like the meat sack we call "us" in a give state at a certain moment in time would be expected to act. Even 'love", in to high a concentration can kill us all. Like any other resource, in to high a concentration, can be hazardous to an organism. Thats the ying and yang of it.

[Rbbi1]

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

god expects you to be just as you are right now. He doesn't hold you to the 'sin of the skin" because once the skin is gone you will see the truth of what it did. It acted just like the meat sack we call "us" in a give state at a certain moment in time would be expected to act. Even 'love", in to high a concentration can kill us all. Like any other resource, in to high a concentration, can be hazardous to an organism. Thats the ying and yang of it.

You're fleshly body has nothing to do with sin except to be used by the fulfilling of it. So that falling away to dust, means nothing. But what is not a flesh body, that of your soul and spirit of man, they are what come into judgment. So don't think just because the vehicle died, that the driving force behind it won't reap. Peace

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

hmm, i think it is better to test it, and decide for yourself. We anxiously await the future, when we might better create it. It seems that anything that can be imagined, and spoken with the mouth, can be brought to pass; i mean, we'll have the Jetson's Foodarackacycles here in a minute lol.
Bible Search: free will
but i dislike this looking for guarantees from Scripture, like the blind leading the blind do.

Here's a passage from scripture which makes it seem as though we very specifically DO NOT have free will. Does it count?


Psalms 139:
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. (NIV)

The living Bible makes it even more clear.

16 You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book! (living Bible)

[cuja1]

Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense

Here's a passage from scripture which makes it seem as though we very specifically DO NOT have free will. Does it count?


Psalms 139:
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. (NIV)

The living Bible makes it even more clear.

16 You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book! (living Bible)

Romans 9:21 is the verse that really makes me call into question free will:

"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?"

This verse appears after Paul talks about God hardening Pharoah's heart.

I've never heard a real good explanation of this verse.

[The Last Amalekite 1Sam15]

Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense

Here's a passage from scripture which makes it seem as though we very specifically DO NOT have free will. Does it count?


Psalms 139:
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. (NIV)

The living Bible makes it even more clear.

16 You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book! (living Bible)

Great find!!

[bbyrd009]

so then ok God has a higher order of understanding of you than a father would his children; or, reflecting upon how fathers could say something similar where their children are concerned, a little too much is read into that. It might be instructive to see why the free will question is so compelling, however, that being, what, absolution of personal responsibility? Or what, exactly?

[cuja1]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

so then ok God has a higher order of understanding of you than a father would his children; or, reflecting upon how fathers could say something similar where their children are concerned, a little too much is read into that. It might be instructive to see why the free will question is so compelling, however, that being, what, absolution of personal responsibility? Or what, exactly?

If there is no free will then discipline is still needed to change a persons actions and to protect society.
Punishment for the sake of punishment would be unjust. This would definitely conflict with what the Bible says.

Eternal torment would be horribly unjust if there were no free will.

And yet there seem to be verses, and quite a few of them, in the Bible that suggest we do not have free will. It's another Biblical paradox.

[tonytonytony]

That's DEEP -------1 Cor. 8:2 !!




DEEP mean learning about water baptism to be holy----John 3:5.


DEEP mean learning about short hair on men to be holy-----1 Cor. 11 .


DEEP mean learning about male pastors only to be holy-----1 Timothy 2:9-14.


DEEP mean learning about loyalty to the right people to be holy----Matthew 15:14.


DEEP mean learning about the right friends to have to be holy-----2 Cor. 6.


DEEP mean learning about marriage to people not divorced to be holy-----Romans 7:2-3.


DEEP mean learning about wine without alcohol to be holy------Proverbs 20:1.


DEEP mean learning about the right parties to be holy------1 Peter 4:1-4.


DEEP mean learning about our pitiful wisdom to be holy----Jeremiah 10:23.


DEEP mean learning that knowing what your talking about enough makes you holy----2 Timothy 2:15.


DEEP mean getting out of inferiority makes you holy-----1 John 2:27.


DEEP mean accessing wisdom of God like any saint makes you holy-----James 1:5.


DEEP mean unphony unity makes you holy----Amos 3:3.


DEEP mean prayer for the right people makes you holy----John 17:9.


DEEP mean the ban of pagan holiday worship makes you holy-----John 4:24.


DEEP mean the end of pagan godhead theology makes you holy-----John 8:24.


DEEP mean no dinosaur expertise makes you holy----1 Timothy 6:20.


DEEP mean no risky 401K if we holy----1 Timothy 6.


DEEP mean no risky mortgages if we holy----1 Timothy 6.


DEEP mean no family supporting on poverty income if we holy-----1 Timothy 5:8.


DEEP mean no theology on unconditional grace if we holy----Romans 6:1.


DEEP mean no marrying young widow women if we holy-----1 Timothy 5:9.


DEEP mean no independent ministries if we holy------Romans 13:1.


DEEP mean no defending the family with a gun if we holy-----Romans 12:17.


DEEP mean tongue regulations if we holy-----1 Cor. 14.


DEEP mean regard for eunich ministries if we holy----1 Cor. 7.


DEEP mean women with head coverings if they holy----1 Cor. 11.


DEEP mean submissive wives if they holy----Ephesians 5:22-23.


DEEP mean repentance theology without tongues, miracles, etc.----Romans 11:29.


DEEP mean theology on a testimony as a 100% bible believer----Matthew 7:21-24.


DEEP mean 90% bible believers not saved-----Matthew 5:17-20.


DEEP mean God behind all the bible to be holy-------2 Timothy 3:16.


DEEP mean eulogies with a heaven for people not holy-----Psalms 107:2.


DEEP mean ministry to bible mockers not holy-----Matthew 7:6.


DEEP mean a problem free life not Christianity-----James 3:2.


DEEP mean exhortation is Christianity too-----John 5:39.


DEEP mean the saint life is a black sheep in the family life-----Matthew 10:34-37.


DEEP mean being too liked is not holy----Luke 6:26.


DEEP mean a saint life has haters on them too much----Matthew 10:22.


DEEP mean advertising Jesus if we holy----------Luke 14:23.


DEEP mean never asking a work boss for a raise if we holy----Luke 3:14.


DEEP mean modest effort to pursue prosperity-----Luke 12:15.


DEEP mean discretion when to be bold if we holy-----Titus 3:10.


DEEP mean hearing God the old fashioned way if we holy-----Romans 10:17.


DEEP mean connecting the bible to anything the Holy Spirit saying if we holy---John 6:63.


DEEP mean honoring the wisdom of God over the wisdom of man-----1 Cor. 1:25.


DEEP mean snitching on how pitiful the integrity of man is-----Isaiah 64:6 and Jeremiah 17:9.


DEEP mean getting 24/7 guidance with the bible for any life encounter----John 14:26 and Psm 119:105.


DEEP mean man not worth 2 cents without the wisdom of God----Psalms 8:4.


DEEP mean the self made life not worth 2 cents------Acts 17:28 and Romans 8:14.


DEEP mean liberation on defining holiness is sin----2 Peter 1:20-21.


DEEP mean giving to any ministry is sin----Galations 1:8-9 and Matthew 7:6.


DEEP mean giving to a bum all the time is sin----2 Thess. 3:10.


DEEP mean ignorance of a stranger all the time is sin---1 Thess. 5:12.


DEEP mean lack of wisdom with unbelievers is sin----Luke 16:9.


DEEP mean anybody our mentor is sin----Psalms 1.


DEEP mean edits on the grammar of the bible is sin----Revelation 22:18-19.


DEEP mean if we continue being stedfast only we in sin---John 8:31.


DEEP mean if we not literal with every enough we in sin-----Matthew 4:4.


DEEP mean if we love people more then God we in sin-----1 John 2:15.


DEEP mean if we in poverty we in sin---- 3 John 2.


DEEP mean if the right people can't tell us nothing we in sin----Jeremiah 3:15.


DEEP mean if we begging too much we in sin----1 Cor. 9:18.


DEEP mean if we stingy supporting the gospel we in sin----1 Cor. 9:14.


DEEP mean if we rookies too long we in sin with no hope----2 Cor. 4:3.


DEEP mean if we too smart for God we not a child of God----John 8:44.


DEEP mean if we not phony with change as a 90% bible believer only----2 Cor. 5:17.


DEEP mean we not guessing we saved-----John 8:32.


DEEP mean we banned many faiths in Jesus to have church if we holy----Ephesians 4:5.


DEEP mean we gave amateur theologians a deaf ear----Ephesians 4:14.


DEEP mean we cut people some slack messing up----Galations 6:1.


DEEP mean we passionate enough about saint unity real enough----Psalms 133:1.


DEEP mean not lovers only -------Colossians 2:8.


DEEP mean we value the wisdom of God to be saint righteous-----Matthew 5:6.


DEEP mean we rightly divide the theology on law gone and law in God today----2 Timothy 2:15.


DEEP mean we not prey people to grammar edit bibles----Ephesians 4:14.


DEEP mean we not letting any book be superior over the bible----Ephesians 4:14.


DEEP mean we not letting any grammar expert be superior over the bible----Ephesians 4:14.


DEEP mean good for evil if we holy---Romans 12:17.


DEEP mean not forcing Christianity on government leaders to run for office----Matthew 7:6.


DEEP mean not forcing Christianity on government leaders to express religion---Matthew 7:6.


DEEP mean voting has nothing to do with being a saint-----Colossians 2:8.


Only thing Jesus did in politics is pay taxes to Caesar----John 8:32.


DEEP mean doing good to all especially saints-----Galations 6:10.


DEEP mean expressing our level of optimistic faith honestly----Romans 12:3.


DEEP don't mean name and claim everything by faith-----Luke 3:14 and Luke 12:15 and Matt. 7:6.






Are We Looking For Each Other---Psalms 133:1 and Amos 3:3 and 2 Cor. 6 and Ephesians 4:14 ?

[bbyrd009]

nice! amazing how you get that out so quick, you must have Scripture memorized or something! I'm sure your posts speak to people

Originally Posted by cuja1

If there is no free will then discipline is still needed to change a persons actions and to protect society.
Punishment for the sake of punishment would be unjust. This would definitely conflict with what the Bible says.

Eternal torment would be horribly unjust if there were no free will.

And yet there seem to be verses, and quite a few of them, in the Bible that suggest we do not have free will. It's another Biblical paradox.

i think this is because free will is being falsely amplified, or falsely defined, and our interactions with our children should pretty much be adequate to understand free will. Iow a child on a playground can do what comes into their heads, mom is not necessarily there saying "ok, climb the slide now," but mom would definitely be able to tell...would appear omniscient from the child's pov, in a way that the child simply cannot grasp at the time. So, the kid is free to do whatever they want, and simultaneously mom is not going to be surprised by what the kid does.

a different reflection is that angels do not have free will, and yet they can rebel--although this is a completely different discussion, it helps to frame free will imo.