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Old 02-25-2008, 07:36 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,264,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little_thirsty View Post
Thank you all so much for your answers. I really am a little stuck on this so I appreciate others insights. And TheComputerGuy I did find a lot of humor in my mess up and thank you for pointing it out. I just didn't want to offend anyone!
Alpha I appreciate your post because sometimes I feel like I am the only one "questioning" in the group I am most involved with. This one is so hard for me. I do believe God is loving, full of mercy, and grace. It is hard to read the OT for me because his punishments were so harsh. I think I would be a pillar of salt, maybe my city would crumble under me. Its like you said Alpha, I am thankful that Jesus died so that I don't have to.
And the other component that grabs my attention, after destroying the entire city, they collected the gold, silver, and iron...while everything else was destroyed to include innocent animals. Why? I am lost with that? Thanks again for your posts.
I doubt you are the only one questioning, little_thirsty. I suspect you are just the only one admitting out loud you are questioning.

Regarding the spoils, I personally think this is God's way of showing us that we are rewarded for obeying and following Him. Again, the Old Testament is there for us as New Testament believers to show us spiritual truths and how to apply them to our lives today. There's no doubt in my mind that these events really happened, but they were definitely before the exemption of the saints from the Wrath of God.

Maybe this would be a good thread to discuss God's wrath and our exemption from it.

Let me know if you're interested in talking about that.

In the meantime, can you please share with me the scriptures that this story is coming from? I want to read them, study them, and pray over them and see if there's something else there to talk about. In other words, I want to make sure I know exactly where you are getting these thoughts from.

Thanks!
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Highland Village
1,433 posts, read 3,471,955 times
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Thanks Alpha! This story of is out of Joshua 2-6, or at least the part we were studying. Joshua 6 is where a lot of my questions come from.
We can take this thread to God's wrath and exemption too. Thanks everyone for honestly answering my questions. It is really nice to go to a place like city data where you can feel "safe" to ask questions. Thanks.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:34 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,056,021 times
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Thanks, little_thirsty. After reading the post I had to go read Joshua who is one of my favorite OT books. I remembered the story you are talking about. Maybe this could give some insight.
It really goes along to what Alpha was saying.

Questions of Old Testament Morality.
In this instance and several others there seems to be a conflict between the behavior of the Hebrew people and the morality commanded in the NT. How are we to understand this? Some would suggest that the behavior is merely human barbarism which is justified (falsely) by claims that it is the will of God. But such a view is impossible to reconcile with the evidence that the Bible is the Word of God.
A more acceptable view is that of progressive revelation. thus what may have appropriate obedience for the Hebrews in a certain stage of their development is not appropriate for us who live in the light of the revelation of God's love in Christ.
But it still may be asked whether a God of love such as He who is seen in Christ could ever command the extermination of whole peoples including women and children. The answer seems to lie in the larger purpose of God. God intended to raise up a holy people to Himself, through whom the Savior of the world could come. It is apparent that the Canaanite people had become so sinful that their very presence in the land would constitute a threat to the continuation of the plan of salvation which God was revealing to Israel. God, and His love, seeks to redeem a people from their sin, but if that sin is so recalcitrant and so far reaching as to threaten the very expression of that love, especially to others, then there is no recourse but judgment. As regards the women and children, it is likely that social solidarity, both for good (as in Acts 16:31) and for evil (as here and in Josh. 7:24,25) is stronger than we are aware.
This does not mean that God wants us to kill immoral people today. Through Christ we know that we must love even the unlovely. But God's instructions to Joshua do show us that we must have nothing to do with sin. We must not associate with sinful people in their sinful actions.When trying to win those deep in sin, the advice of Jude is ever appropriate: " But others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh" (v.23)


This is pretty strong to read. It really spoke to me that God is very serious about sin and the responsibility of it in our lives. And how Christ Jesus came for our sins and can set us free.
I am so thankful for His Holy Spirit that keeps us from such!!
Reading the OT really shows us how bad sin affects the life of a soul. But also the hope we have in the NT through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

God bless!!
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Western Washington, USA
37 posts, read 95,067 times
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One key that helps me with these questions is to look at this life as God sees it and as it really is lest we put emphasis in the wrong place.

James 4 says that our life is but a vapor, it is here and gone again. II Cor. 4 says that what is seen is temporal, but what is unseen is eternal.

We so often see our physical life as what is important, but from God's eternal perspective, we are only subject to this futility of life for a very short time.

The things that happened to those in the OT were for our examples and they were written down for our learning. We learn spiritual truths about God's attitude toward sin and the carnal mind from what happened to them. Those who died in these OT situations cannot be perfected without us and we must learn our lessons so we can open the way to glorification and the Kingdom which they will also partake in.

It is all a part of God's plan of bringing all together as one in Christ that God may be All in All. We stand on the shoulders of their sacrifices and take them with us into becoming the image and likeness of God.

John
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Somewhere! :)
1,989 posts, read 3,951,620 times
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All excellent posts!
I'm glad I found this place!
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:55 AM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,167,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little_thirsty View Post
Thanks Alpha! This story of is out of Joshua 2-6, or at least the part we were studying. Joshua 6 is where a lot of my questions come from.
We can take this thread to God's wrath and exemption too. Thanks everyone for honestly answering my questions. It is really nice to go to a place like city data where you can feel "safe" to ask questions. Thanks.
Just to let you know, Alpha is right!! You are probably not the only one questioning this.

My 90 year old step-dad has read the Bible and has had it read to him, went to Bible studies for years and NEVER asked these questions. Until, a month ago, he is living with a family of different Christian faith. He felt comfortable with them, to finally ask questions, that have HAUNTED him for years in the O.T.. Questions about what he considered a MEAN God, but was too afraid to speak up among his church friends.

Sometimes, I think some feel if they question the Bible, there questioning God, questioning is how we learn about God!!

I have been told and looked at the O.T. as God preserving the PATH for His Son. The innocent, just went back to Heaven!!!
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Indiana
1,250 posts, read 3,135,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitrun View Post
I cannot advise highly enough that you look into Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
What answer do they provide for this question? Can you explain this a bit?
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso NM
1,483 posts, read 1,601,934 times
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I love the OT, God is very passionate! As you grow in in his wisdom you will see how he acted out of mercy and grace, Don't you think it broke his heart to see Children following in there parents footsteps embracing abominable sins. Also using children for there deviant pleasure. I believe he saved the coming generations from sin, by his cleansing by his fire. As sin is very contaminating.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:06 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,071,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle1210 View Post
I love the OT, God is very passionate! As you grow in in his wisdom you will see how he acted out of mercy and grace, Don't you think it broke his heart to see Children following in there parents footsteps embracing abominable sins. Also using children for there deviant pleasure. I believe he saved the coming generations from sin, by his cleansing by his fire. As sin is very contaminating.
Yes.. certainly passionate but I wouldn't say passionate in a loving way in this instance. I mean why kill the animals? What in the hell did they do to deserve to die?

Hey you Ox. Guess what.. your owner there.. he is gonna die. Guess what.. you too!

Ox: What did I do?

Don't even worry about it. Be gone. **Poof**
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:13 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,056,021 times
Reputation: 17784
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Yes.. certainly passionate but I wouldn't say passionate in a loving way in this instance. I mean why kill the animals? What in the hell did they do to deserve to die?

Hey you Ox. Guess what.. your owner there.. he is gonna die. Guess what.. you too!

Ox: What did I do?

Don't even worry about it. Be gone. **Poof**
lol!!!! I'm sorry, but that is way to funny!!!!
"Poof" poor Ox!
Thanks little_thirsty!
Blessings
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