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And that those in need are despised. This thread has been a real eye opener.
I don't despise the truly needy. I despise forced redistribution. Jesus didn't call for forced redistribution. The founders did not institute it. Just because many don't condone forced redistribution does not constitute them not caring or giving freely. It is absurd to suggest otherwise.
I don't despise the truly needy. I despise forced redistribution. Jesus didn't call for forced redistribution. The founders did not institute it. Just because many don't condone forced redistribution does not constitute them not caring or giving freely. It is absurd to suggest otherwise.
Exactly. Forced redistrubution is a GUN pointed at your head. Think on that. Is that Christ-like? To point a gun at someone's head and STEAL what they have, to give to another? Because when you break it down, that is exactly what it is. If I do not pay taxes, I will eventually be thrown into a cage. If I resist being thrown into a cage, men with guns will force me into that cage. How is this resembling ANYTHING Christ would have wanted?
This also promotes resentment as more and more people work the system, and accept welfare, and government aid who do not DESERVE it, which takes money and help out of the hands of the truly needy. Some of you who act like this does not happen, have OBVIOUSLY lived well. I have lived in very bad areas, grew up in bad areas. And you would see it every single day. People all around you, milking the system. It's a tragedy. Government does this to keep us divided and resenting each other. Government does not do this out of the "goodness" of it's heart. Quite the opposite. It's the "new plantation". Keeping people enslaved and controlled.
Another thing that this does is it chisels away at the SPIRIT of giving in a people. When so much is stolen from you, you do not have as much left over to cheerfully give and help your neighbor. It is disgusting. When there is a gun pointed at your head and a large portion of your hard-earned money is stolen, again it breeds resentment and ill-will toward your neighbor, the EXACT OPPOSITE EFFECT a WILLFUL GIVER has. THINK ON THAT.
And this is just a tiny tip of the iceberg of this topic. The big picture contains so much, so many intricacies, causes and effects, trickling down consequences, etc.
Government policies CREATE POVERTY. Government policies keep people DOWN. Government policiies DESTROYS charity. Government policies DESTROYS the SPIRIT of giving. Government policies BREEDS resentment. Government policies DIVIDES us All.
Anyone who is familiar with the Bible should know that if he owns something he doesn't need, he should give it to those who don't have it. That would include money.
So, are you following this commandment? Do your money and possessions just barely sustain you?
Actually, that pertains when you see with your own eyes your brother in need, but this was under the requirement in being a disciple of John the Baptist's
Luke 3:1Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.18 And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people.
The idea of being baptized by John the Baptist's is to be his follower; and John had given instructions on how to be his disciple in following him.
So what you are paraphrasing was not an actual command from the Lord Jesus Christ in being His disciple, because there is such a thing as a rich christian, and Paul certainly did not say no believer can be rich, and even though he did encourage distribution as a good work, but certainly not at the point of ceasing to be rich in how you are broadcasting John the Baptist's instructions in being his follower.
1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
So God gives to the rich to enjoy all things, but they are instructed not to be highminded nor trust in uncertain riches which can be here one day and gone the next. Rich christians must be ready and willing to leave their rich life down on earth when the Bridegroom comes; and I must say, the common folk and even the poor folk needs His help to do that too.
I don't despise the truly needy. I despise forced redistribution. Jesus didn't call for forced redistribution. The founders did not institute it. Just because many don't condone forced redistribution does not constitute them not caring or giving freely. It is absurd to suggest otherwise.
There need be no religious imperative for "forced redistribution." It is, and has been for a long time, a social requirement in enlightened societies which recognize that all benefit when basic needs are met for everyone and everyone has a chance to make something valuable of himself. That society has always had to drag the selfish along kicking and screaming is also true and there will always be those who exploit those less fortunate than themselves. It is up to an enlightened society to level the playing field as much as can be done when such inequities are brought to light.
There need be no religious imperative for "forced redistribution." It is, and has been for a long time, a social requirement in enlightened societies which recognize that all benefit when basic needs are met for everyone and everyone has a chance to make something valuable of himself. That society has always had to drag the selfish along kicking and screaming is also true and there will always be those who exploit those less fortunate than themselves. It is up to an enlightened society to level the playing field as much as can be done when such inequities are brought to light.
"I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want."
Does this in any way apply to the discussion? Was Paul in some way out of harmony with God when he was living in plenty and was content in that situation?
There need be no religious imperative for "forced redistribution." It is, and has been for a long time, a social requirement in enlightened societies which recognize that all benefit when basic needs are met for everyone and everyone has a chance to make something valuable of himself. That society has always had to drag the selfish along kicking and screaming is also true and there will always be those who exploit those less fortunate than themselves. It is up to an enlightened society to level the playing field as much as can be done when such inequities are brought to light.
Society's responsibility in this is a discussion for the political forum then, yes?
The question is, what is our spiritual response to having plenty? And, conversely, what should be the response of us who are not the "1%" (or whatever amount of "plenty" the rest of us have judged as being "unholy" -- and how do we make that determination, anyway?) to those in the 1% who we believe are mistreating the rest of us? Isn't it to pray for them and bless them?
Joel S. isn't everyone's cup of tea, but Rain, Nate and others who are also open-minded may appreciate what he's saying, applied to the topic at hand, in the first 10 minutes or so.
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And that those in need are despised. This thread has been a real eye opener.
