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Who's in hell? You probably have loved ones who have died, perhaps who were never believers. Do you ever think about who's in the hell you were taught by the modern church to believe in? Do you believe all the people of other faiths who have died are in hell? All the Native Indians? All the Hindus? All the Jews? All the Muslims? All the Buddhists? All the Agnostics?
Very good question and a hard one to answer.
I don't believe that indigenous cultures, other religions and those who never read or were exposed to the KJV Bible are necessarily doomed.
I actually made a thread of this in the main thread about NDE's and seeing Hell.
Ultimately will leave that with God to decide, and not prepared to say that Christians have exclusive rights in any way.
Who's in hell? You probably have loved ones who have died, perhaps who were never believers. Do you ever think about who's in the hell you were taught by the modern church to believe in? Do you believe all the people of other faiths who have died are in hell? All the Native Indians? All the Hindus? All the Jews? All the Muslims? All the Buddhists? All the Agnostics?
Yes, I met Gary and Michelle Amirault of Tentmaker many years ago. They are wonderful Christians. I do wonder why people who believe in literal eternal hell get so mad when that belief is challenged. I mean, does it make them angry to think of no one being eternally tormented in fire? Or does it make them mad that there are beautiful, faithful Christians around the world who do not believe in that doctrine? They will say just accepting Jesus as Lord is enough to be saved. But then if you discuss judgement, you will soon learn that they believe it is hell we are saved from rather than sin and death.
I think the true reason it makes them angry is because it takes away the tool of fear that they like to use to convert others.
Yes, I met Gary and Michelle Amirault of Tentmaker many years ago. They are wonderful Christians. I do wonder why people who believe in literal eternal hell get so mad when that belief is challenged. I mean, does it make them angry to think of no one being eternally tormented in fire? Or does it make them mad that there are beautiful, faithful Christians around the world who do not believe in that doctrine? They will say just accepting Jesus as Lord is enough to be saved. But then if you discuss judgement, you will soon learn that they believe it is hell we are saved from rather than sin and death.
I think the true reason it makes them angry is because it takes away the tool of fear that they like to use to convert others.
I actually agree, and in many ways Christian Universalism makes sense.
As you get older you know more people that have died, many close relatives, and the questions do run deep.
And nearly every funeral I have been too, the person is assumed to now be with God and going to Heaven.
I am yet to go to a funeral where the Priest or Minister has condemned that person to Hell.
I actually agree, and in many ways Christian Universalism makes sense.
As you get older you know more people that have died, many close relatives, and the questions do run deep.
And nearly every funeral I have been too, the person is assumed to now be with God and going to Heaven.
I am yet to go to a funeral where the Priest or Minister has condemned that person to Hell.
Well you are lucky. There are funerals where the minister questions the fate of the deceased. Not kidding.
Yes, I met Gary and Michelle Amirault of Tentmaker many years ago. They are wonderful Christians. I do wonder why people who believe in literal eternal hell get so mad when that belief is challenged. I mean, does it make them angry to think of no one being eternally tormented in fire? Or does it make them mad that there are beautiful, faithful Christians around the world who do not believe in that doctrine? They will say just accepting Jesus as Lord is enough to be saved. But then if you discuss judgement, you will soon learn that they believe it is hell we are saved from rather than sin and death.
I think the true reason it makes them angry is because it takes away the tool of fear that they like to use to convert others.
When you are convinced that sin is punishable by hell by a god who demands perfection rather than a God who wants you to BE perfect because anything short of it we are not enjoying God's best, you are going to think it's an injustice and God is not being fair, when you gave up your life of not believing in Jesus and those that don't believe in believing in Jesus go to heaven with you too instead of hell.
In my Christian days I would have considered it to be anyone who, today, I would now consider to be in tune with God and the universe. Anyone who I now consider to be spiritually healthy.
RainMusic, I believe what the apostles wrote, and what they recorded Jesus as saying. And that is that the ultimate destination of those who die without trusting in Jesus for eternal life will be forever separated from God in that place referred to in the Bible as the lake of fire.
Now whether that refers to a place of literal fire, or whether 'fire' simply refers to judgment of some sort, I don't know. But since that place is also called 'the outer darkness,' I tend to think that literal fire is not in view.
What is clear from the Scriptures however is that it is a place where those who are there will as Paul stated in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
John stated in Revelation 20:10 that the devil, the beast and the false prophet will be tormented day and night forever in the lake of fire. Jesus said as recorded in Matthew 25:41, 45 that He will order the accursed ones into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels where they will be under eternal punishment.
However, Jesus also spoke of degrees of punishment in the day of judgment in Matthew 11:21-24 and indicated degrees of punishment in the parable of Luke 12:42-48.
The concept of eternal punishment is not the invention of the modern church, but is a Biblically taught subject which both Jesus and the apostles spoke of. And the only issue involved in whether you will spend the eternal future with God, or separated from God, is whether you have availed yourself of God's provision for you to have eternal life through faith in the saving work of Christ on the cross on your behalf.
There comes a point in the life of every person who has normal mental ability where he will reach a point of God consciousness, where he will wonder whether there is some kind of god or supreme being. At that point he becomes accountable to God for how he volitionally responds to that. That's the age of accountability and will vary from person to person. There's no set age. If he is positive at the point of God consciousness then God will see to it that he has the opportunity to hear the gospel message concerning Christ Jesus. If he responds positively to that gospel message by believing on Christ Jesus then he has eternal life. If he rejects the gospel message then he remains under condemnation. But if at the point of God consciousness he is negative and he remains negative for his entire life then he may never hear the gospel message at all, and he remains under condemnation.
If a person, because of mental incapacity dies without ever having reached the point of God consciousness, such as a young child, or even an adult who because of severe mental incapacity such as severe mental retardation, I believe that person will be automatically saved and will spend the eternal future with God.
The angels in Revelation were described in the beginning of the book as being very beautiful and holy creatures. But then something happened. Something that caused silence in heaven for a period of time. Then all those angels fell. Their destruction is described after that point.
My only conclusion is that it is a place for anyone who chooses to believe in religion in any form. It will fall from its original heavenly state. It will be this way for all future generations, for anyone choosing to follow religious faith in any form.
That is how religious faith is an eternal place of torment, literally.
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