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Old 03-26-2017, 01:46 PM
 
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I think that last part about being "condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic church" says it all for me. Peace
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:23 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 View Post


Hi, Richard

Lets follow the time line.

God the Father= Creator of all there is.

Refer:
Gen_2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Ok...What's your point here?...




Quote:
1. Being born = Gen_5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Bereisheet - Genesis - Chapter 5

2 Male and female He created them, and He blessed them, and He named them man (Adam) on the day they were created.


But yet it says that Chava was created later, not on the same day...So, you must be missing something here...

Quote:
Refer:
God breath life into the lump of clay and it became a living soul.......life. (Innocent as a new born baby, perfect and without sin)

Bereisheet - Genesis - Chapter 1

27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Rashi's Commentary:

And God created man in His image: In the form that was made for him, for everything [else] was created with a command, whereas he [man] was created with the hands (of God), as it is written (Ps. 139:5): “and You placed Your hand upon me.” Man was made with a die, like a coin, which is made by means of a die, which is called coin in Old French. And so Scripture states (Job 38:14): “The die changes like clay.” - [from Letters of Rabbi Akiva , second version; Mid. Ps. 139:5; Sanh. 38a]

in the image of God He created him: It explains to you that the image that was prepared for him was the image of the likeness of his Creator. — [from B.B. 58a]

male and female He created them: Yet further (2:21) Scripture states: “And He took one of his ribs, etc.” The Midrash Aggadah (Gen. Rabbah 8:1, Ber. 61a, Eruvin 18a) explains that He originally created him with two faces, and afterwards, He divided him. The simple meaning of the verse is that here Scripture informs you that they were both created on the sixth [day], but it does not explain to you how they were created, and it explains [that] to you elsewhere. — [from Baraitha of the Thirty Two Methods , Method 13]


2. Being Enabled with intelligence

Quote:
Refer:
Gen_3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

3. Because of........ Consequences

Refer: Gen_3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
So, Adam and Chava became gods...



Quote:
Gen_3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

4. Resultant.......Death.
The resultant was not death because they were created mortal...



The rest of this is just man's opinion and cannot be lined up with the Tanakh...

Quote:
Refer: 1Co_15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

2. God the Son = Re-Creator of the spirit of man

1Co_15:21......by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

And last but not least.....

3. God the Holy Spirit = Motivator, counselor, Comforter, and the Converter of the dead spirit in mankind.

R

Joh_14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Quote:
Friends.....that is the time line.....everything else is........the works of man.

Blessings, AJ
This time-line is the work of man...
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:24 PM
 
Location: US
26,241 posts, read 13,909,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Have either of you ever read the Nicene Creed? If so, how can you wonder what it has to do with Jesus? The Nicene Creed of A.D. 325 is a formal statement declaring the deity of Jesus and mentions the three Persons of the Trinity. God the Father; Jesus, the Son of God and declared to Himself be very God of very God; and of the Holy Spirit.

First Council of Nicaea (325)
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];

Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;

He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven;

From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

And in the Holy Ghost

[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'— they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
That is MAN"S creed...Not biblical...
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:59 AM
 
4,006 posts, read 968,927 times
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V64DSYX_9QI&t=1165s

this is awesome... and so wonderful to know that the Lord of creation can not only step into the fires to save men , but he can step into a babies mind that appears closed and locked away . and Jesus can love them to life.. I got this yesterday in my subscriptions and what Jesus taught the Autistic child is good enough explanation for me and should be good enough for anyone else.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:37 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 1,451,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, I am talking about Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is Himself God the Son who created all that has been created.



Fact-- The one whom God created all other things through--is Gods master worker of Prov 8--0 doubt--read it all--8:22--produced me ( created direct-first and last)as the beginning( creation) of your way( creation)
Coll 1:15--firstborn of all CREATION.


creation occurred in the beginning, not at Matthew.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:38 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 1,451,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It is not what proverbs 8 is talking about...It is not talking about Jesus...

In a way you are correct. That being of Prov 8 wasn't named Jesus until he became a mortal.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:01 PM
 
20,290 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Have either of you ever read the Nicene Creed? If so, how can you wonder what it has to do with Jesus? The Nicene Creed of A.D. 325 is a formal statement declaring the deity of Jesus and mentions the three Persons of the Trinity. God the Father; Jesus, the Son of God and declared to Himself be very God of very God; and of the Holy Spirit.

First Council of Nicaea (325)
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];

Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;

He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven;

From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

And in the Holy Ghost

[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'— they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Fact-- The one whom God created all other things through--is Gods master worker of Prov 8--0 doubt--read it all--8:22--produced me ( created direct-first and last)as the beginning( creation) of your way( creation)
Coll 1:15--firstborn of all CREATION.


creation occurred in the beginning, not at Matthew.
Proverbs 8 does not indicate that Wisdom ever had a beginning. There was never a time when God did not have His Wisdom. God's Wisdom is eternal. As long as God has existed, and there never was a time when God did not exist, His Wisdom has existed.

Nor does Col. 1:15 have the meaning that you give to it.
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
The word translated as 'firstborn' is πρωτότοκος - prōtotokos and simply refers to Jesus' pre-eminence, His supremacy, His priority over all of creation.
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Old 03-27-2017, 10:12 PM
 
125 posts, read 53,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
It fits.
KJV is loaded with errors.
Interesting that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society would authorize the KJV, a translation "loaded with errors". Why would it allow for such confusion and place such a stumbling block in the path of the little ones? Would the WBTS not be better off to rid themselves of accountability of approving and publishing such a stumbling block?

Because the word other fits huh? Got it...the original Greek published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society which does not contain the word 'other' is in error too so the WBTS publishing house has to add in a word to its New World Translation to fit its own theology to prove it alone has the truth. Got it.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:57 AM
 
Location: US
26,241 posts, read 13,909,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Proverbs 8 does not indicate that Wisdom ever had a beginning. There was never a time when God did not have His Wisdom. God's Wisdom is eternal. As long as God has existed, and there never was a time when God did not exist, His Wisdom has existed.

Nor does Col. 1:15 have the meaning that you give to it.
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
The word translated as 'firstborn' is πρωτότοκος - prōtotokos and simply refers to Jesus' pre-eminence, His supremacy, His priority over all of creation.

22 The Lord acquired me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old.

Rashi's Commentary:


at the beginning of His way: before the creation of the world.
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:01 AM
 
Location: US
26,241 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
In a way you are correct. That being of Prov 8 wasn't named Jesus until he became a mortal.
There is no mention of a "master worker" in Proverbs 8...Proverbs 8 has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or even Mashiach...It is talking purely about wisdom...Just as the Hebrew Scriptures often identify the whole of Israel as G-d's son and refer to Israel as one man throughout a passage or chapter...
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