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Old 01-11-2018, 08:33 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 19 days ago)
 
5,300 posts, read 1,337,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So why didn't God sacrify the Holy Spirit?
Because that's not his role.
Quote:

This person doesn't look too useful. It just watches what's happening between the Father and the Son who are one but different person at different locations.
The Holy Spirit moves in people, convicting them of their sin. He regenerates hearts. He is the "helper" that Jesus promised to send. He points us at God. He gifts us with what we need to serve God.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:37 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 19 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
I don't see how a neuter "it" can be a person.
Just as a car or a ship is called a ' she 'but they are Not persons but are neuter as "it".
This I find to also be true about God's spirit (Psalms 104:30) because if we read at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25 there God's spirit is neuter as "it".
Because in the OT there really isn't the permanent indwelling of the Spirit. He hadn't been sent by Jesus yet.
Quote:


Also, the older KJV Bible at Romans 8:16 and Romans 8:26 has God's spirit in the neuter gender at ' "itself".
Don't much care what the KJV has. We have since found older, more reliable texts than what the KJV was translated off of.
Quote:

Whereas Jesus and his God are always in the masculine gender and never neuter as " it '.
Please notice where God's spirit was at Job 27:3 ___________
How can an "it" be lied to, as in Acts 5?
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:38 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 19 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
This is very interesting, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom" the son is God? yes, but did not God the one called Father say in
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me". and he said this, Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me".

Now if the God, who is LORD all cap say that he is the Saviour, and there is no God beside him, then the Son must not have a God, nor do the Holy Ghost. the term my God is just that "my" Spirit, for God is "A" Spirit (John 4:24a). the word "my" shows possession, as in my Father, or my Son. while the Spirit is diversified in flesh, it's his/my Spirit/God, For God is a Spirit. again, not knowing that God is a plurality of HIMSELF, hence the error of Balaam.

as the scriptures are clear, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children".

PCY
Yet, Jesus is called God throughout the NT, as well as in some messianic prophecies in the OT.

The logical conclusion is that there is only 1 God, but all 3 persons are God, as they are all called God, they can be lied to, they can act, so they have wills, etc.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,618 posts, read 1,412,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Yet, Jesus is called God throughout the NT, as well as in some messianic prophecies in the OT.

The logical conclusion is that there is only 1 God, but all 3 persons are God, as they are all called God, they can be lied to, they can act, so they have wills, etc.
First thanks for the response. and two, good to see a reasonable post. I thank God for That.

your post is very interesting. let's, if you don't mind, concentrate on the person(s). if we can show that Jesus is the God, the ONLY God of the OT, will that interest you?
Jesus is God in the NT, but let's look at the OT and see if the Lord JESUS is God there.

my belief is that the Lord Jesus is the HOLY SPIRIT, who is the ONLY RUE God of the OT and NT. let's look at the evidence.

#1. John 1:1 we know that the Lord Jesus is the "word, who is God". now 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".

here, in these verse by Peter, an apostle, says that the Spirit, (all Caps), of Christ was "IN" the prophets of the OT prophesying. I agree, for the the Spirit of the Lord is prophecy, (see Rev 19:10). the Lord Jesus, Without Blood, without flesh, and without bone was in the OT according to Peter. now BaptistFundie, can you tell me which Spirit, (all caps) was in the OT Prophets. remember all these OT prophets had this saying, "the word of the LORD came unto me saying". and the word of the LORD is Jesus right, according to John 1:1. so who was the Spirit that came to the Prophets of OLD. Peter said it was Jesus and all the OT prophets said it was the LORD. so, is the LORD JESUS in the OT?

Me, I say YES, and if you say no, then may we discuss the matter. looking to hear from you.

PCY
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:34 AM
 
691 posts, read 396,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So why didn't God sacrify the Holy Spirit? This person doesn't look too useful. It just watches what's happening between the Father and the Son who are one but different person at different locations.
first, MANY need to do google research on how the false teachings of the trinity became part of a "Christian" teaching, and where it's origins stems. people who reads ,(1John 5:7 (NKJV) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one). as always many leaves out either the verses before or after. in which it would take away from what one wanted another to believe. see , (verse 8 "the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree). NOTICE, now it doesn't seem to be speaking about THREE Heavenly beings! we are baptized by means of Jehovah God's HS, alongside a water baptisms , we all must go through if we want to be a servant and follower of Jehovah God and Jesus.

but most importantly there was the blood, in which Jesus gave up his perfect life so that we may live ,(John 3:17). many does not seem to acknowledge this verse ,(1John Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one who caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one). despite what many want to believe, Jesus was created by God. see also (Colo.1:15,16 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him).

there NO Jesus, God and a third being as all in one. when Jesus said the "Father and i are one". he meant in total agreement and in union. not that they were one of the same or Jesus was Son on earth and Father in Heaven. and the HS isn't a being at all. if it was, why would Jesus leave "HIM" out here? Notice ,(But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mark 13:32). Jesus mention EVERYONE, humans, Angels, even himself, NOT knowing when the End would hit. he showed that ONLY the "Father " would know. Now if the Holy Spirit was part of the Heavenly ream, why wasn't "HE" mentioned? because there's NO third being to mention.

the HS is Jehovah's God's POWER and WILL. basically it's whatever he wants done, it will happen. Jesus didn't perform any miracles until AFTER he was baptized and his Father Holy Spirit came upon him. Jesus said at ,(Matt.12:31,32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come).

If the Father is the highest being ,and Jesus basically say one can speak ill about himself. why is it that Jesus seem to have left out the Father? simply he didn't, Jesus was saying if one speak ill against his Father's POWER. which is his HS, his act to do whatever he wants, that person is as good as being dead forever! Notice , (Acts 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord). here it talks about Barnabas, if the Holy spirit was a being, why doesn't the scripture say Barnabas was a good man, always having the holy Spirit with him, or something like that.

Instead it says he was "full of the Holy spirit!" he was good, because he allowed Jehovah Power of Goodness to be in him. when we treat others with love, we have the Spirit of the Father. when we're evil we have the wicked spirit of satan. because though satan can't do ALL of what Jehovah God can. he can still put it in humans to be evil, if we don't allow Jehovah's HS or Power to move us. so Jesus wasn't actually "sending a being to help his Apostles spiritually. because he would soon be gone from the earth. he meant by means of his Father permission to do so. could grant them the Power of God to continue as he taught them. peace
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:16 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 19 days ago)
 
5,300 posts, read 1,337,111 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
First thanks for the response. and two, good to see a reasonable post. I thank God for That.

your post is very interesting. let's, if you don't mind, concentrate on the person(s). if we can show that Jesus is the God, the ONLY God of the OT, will that interest you?
Jesus is God in the NT, but let's look at the OT and see if the Lord JESUS is God there.

my belief is that the Lord Jesus is the HOLY SPIRIT, who is the ONLY RUE God of the OT and NT. let's look at the evidence.


#1. John 1:1 we know that the Lord Jesus is the "word, who is God". now 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".

That does not say anything about Jesus being the Spirit.
Quote:

here, in these verse by Peter, an apostle, says that the Spirit, (all Caps), of Christ was "IN" the prophets of the OT prophesying. I agree, for the the Spirit of the Lord is prophecy, (see Rev 19:10). the Lord Jesus, Without Blood, without flesh, and without bone was in the OT according to Peter.

Not quite. He was referring to the Holy Spirit. He would come and go, filling the OT Prophets and speaking through them.
Quote:


now BaptistFundie, can you tell me which Spirit, (all caps) was in the OT Prophets. remember all these OT prophets had this saying, "the word of the LORD came unto me saying". and the word of the LORD is Jesus right, according to John 1:1. so who was the Spirit that came to the Prophets of OLD. Peter said it was Jesus and all the OT prophets said it was the LORD. so, is the LORD JESUS in the OT?

Ah...now I see. You're committing the illegitimate totality transfer by suggesting that "word" in John 1 means the same as "word" in the OT. It doesn't. That is a misreading of the text. The illegitimate totality transfer is the fallacy where someone takes a word and applies the same meaning to it in every instance of the Bible. If we did this, we would read into the text the idea that Jesus LOVED his disciples in the same way that a man loves his wife. But that would not be correct. There are 3 different types of love that the Bible mentions, and agape love is much different than eros love. Likewise, "word" in John 1 is much different than the "word" of the Lord that came to a prophet.
Quote:

Me, I say YES, and if you say no, then may we discuss the matter. looking to hear from you.

PCY
Now...can you tell me which member of the Trinity appeared to Abraham in Genesis 17:1-8?
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,618 posts, read 1,412,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
That does not say anything about Jesus being the Spirit.


Not quite. He was referring to the Holy Spirit. He would come and go, filling the OT Prophets and speaking through them.


Ah...now I see. You're committing the illegitimate totality transfer by suggesting that "word" in John 1 means the same as "word" in the OT. It doesn't. That is a misreading of the text. The illegitimate totality transfer is the fallacy where someone takes a word and applies the same meaning to it in every instance of the Bible. If we did this, we would read into the text the idea that Jesus LOVED his disciples in the same way that a man loves his wife. But that would not be correct. There are 3 different types of love that the Bible mentions, and agape love is much different than eros love. Likewise, "word" in John 1 is much different than the "word" of the Lord that came to a prophet.

Now...can you tell me which member of the Trinity appeared to Abraham in Genesis 17:1-8?
First Thanks for the reply. let's put #1 & #2 Together.

#1. you said, "That does not say anything about Jesus being the Spirit".
#2. you said, "He was referring to the Holy Spirit".
#3. you said, "Ah...now I see. You're committing the illegitimate totality transfer by suggesting that "word" in John 1 means the same as "word" in the OT. It doesn't".

ok, let's put it all together, and see if this is so.

our first premise. Is the Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit?. scriptual support.

#1. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

and he also said this, just a couple verses later same chapter. John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him".

ok BaptistFundie,
A. when did the Lord Jesus come to them, in order not to leave them comfortless.
B. in his coming, the world will not see him, so how is that?
C. in this coming, he said that he will "Manifest" himself to them. when did that happen.

Looking to hear from you, again thanks.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:58 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 19 days ago)
 
5,300 posts, read 1,337,111 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
First Thanks for the reply. let's put #1 & #2 Together.

#1. you said, "That does not say anything about Jesus being the Spirit".
#2. you said, "He was referring to the Holy Spirit".
#3. you said, "Ah...now I see. You're committing the illegitimate totality transfer by suggesting that "word" in John 1 means the same as "word" in the OT. It doesn't".

ok, let's put it all together, and see if this is so.

our first premise. Is the Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit?. scriptual support.

#1. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".
Why would he leave if he was just going to come back? You think he sends himself? There is a distinction made between him and the Spirit.
Quote:
and he also said this, just a couple verses later same chapter. John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him".

ok BaptistFundie,
A. when did the Lord Jesus come to them, in order not to leave them comfortless.
He didn't. He said he would send the helper, or the Comforter.
Quote:

B. in his coming, the world will not see him, so how is that?
Who do you mean by "him"? THe Spirit? That's because the Spirit is not a physical person.
Quote:

C. in this coming, he said that he will "Manifest" himself to them. when did that happen.

Looking to hear from you, again thanks.
That is what he means by sending the Spirit. The context is talking about him sending a different person than himself. He is God....so he will show himself to them in the person of the Spirit -- and he said he won't leave us hanging.


Now will you answer my qeustion? God appeared to Abraham in Genesis 17. How was that? Was it the Spirit? Was it God the Father? Who appeared to him?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:03 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,825,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
First Thanks for the reply. let's put #1 & #2 Together.

#1. you said, "That does not say anything about Jesus being the Spirit".
#2. you said, "He was referring to the Holy Spirit".
#3. you said, "Ah...now I see. You're committing the illegitimate totality transfer by suggesting that "word" in John 1 means the same as "word" in the OT. It doesn't".

ok, let's put it all together, and see if this is so.

our first premise. Is the Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit?. scriptual support.

#1. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

and he also said this, just a couple verses later same chapter. John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him".

ok BaptistFundie,
A. when did the Lord Jesus come to them, in order not to leave them comfortless.
B. in his coming, the world will not see him, so how is that?
C. in this coming, he said that he will "Manifest" himself to them. when did that happen.

Looking to hear from you, again thanks.
This is how Scriptures teach the Deity God (aka Trinity)
The Father is called God
Galatians 1:1, Revelations 1:6
The Son is called God
John 1:1: 20:28, Rom 9:5, 1 John 5:20
The Holy Spirit is called God
Acts 5:2-4 (lied to)
“Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit ... You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” ... Acts 5-2-4
Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:29 (blasphemed against)
.. anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." ... Matthew 12:32

" but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.” ... Mark 3:29
Mark 13:2, 11: (He speaks)
the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” ... Mark 13:2

"Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit." ... Mark 13:11
Acts 7:51 (He has been historically resisted)
You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! ... Acts 7:51
Acts 20:23 (He warns)
I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. ... Acts 20:23
Then of course the obvious mention of the existence of the "Trinity" is by Jesus
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
  1. the Father
  2. and of the Son
  3. and of the Holy Spirit,
1st century NT word used for our coined word "trinity" ..... deity

Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:08 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 19 days ago)
 
5,300 posts, read 1,337,111 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
This is how Scriptures teach the Deity God (aka Trinity)
The Father is called God
Galatians 1:1, Revelations 1:6
The Son is called God
John 1:1: 20:28, Rom 9:5, 1 John 5:20
The Holy Spirit is called God
Acts 5:2-4 (lied to)
“Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit ... You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” ... Acts 5-2-4
Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:29 (blasphemed against)
.. anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." ... Matthew 12:32

" but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.” ... Mark 3:29
Mark 13:2, 11: (He speaks)
the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” ... Mark 13:2

"Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit." ... Mark 13:11
Acts 7:51 (He has been historically resisted)
You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! ... Acts 7:51
Acts 20:23 (He warns)
I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. ... Acts 20:23
Then of course the obvious mention of the existence of the "Trinity" is by Jesus
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
  1. the Father
  2. and of the Son
  3. and of the Holy Spirit,
1st century NT word used for our coined word "trinity" ..... deity

Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
I'm not sure he really wants to look at the obvious teaching of Scripture. It seems to be a common tactic what he's doing -- focusing on 1 verse and using THAT as a pretext to read everything else.
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