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Old 01-11-2018, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,265 posts, read 20,872,370 times
Reputation: 9950

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
well maybe you have never heard of the truth before. as for your description, "unintelligible post", which is only an excuse to hear the truth is a cop-out.
No. The truth is that you can't write a intelligible sentence. I am completely open to hearing other people's viewpoints, provided they are capable of expressing them.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,275 posts, read 10,383,387 times
Reputation: 6937
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
well maybe you have never heard of the truth before. as for your description, "unintelligible post", which is only an excuse to hear the truth is a cop-out.

and since you said that, "your impossibly messed up grammar and punctuation, I have no idea what you're trying to get at". well if you're so intelligent why not help a brother out and correct the grammar where you can read it. we who are less intelligent than you are counting on those like you with your superior brain power to help us who are more or less fortunate to have been highly instructed in proper grammar.

so, let's see if you can help us understand what was said.

I said the Lord Jesus prayed, just like the Holy Spirit who is God. now, as you think, is not the Holy Spirit as well as the Son CO-EQUALS?, if not then you have a serious problem in your doctrine. Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered".

Now I ask who is the Holy Spirit praying to?

PCY
You might start by using capital letters at the beginnings of sentences. Correctly placed commas also help make writing more understandable. The period goes before the closing quotation mark. Perhaps like this:

And since you said that, "Your impossibly messed up grammar and punctuation, I have no idea what you're trying to get at." Well, if you're so intelligent, why not help a brother out and correct the grammar where it can be read more easily. We, who are less intelligent than you, are counting on those, like you, with your superior brain power to help us, who are more or less fortunate, who have been highly instructed in proper grammar.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:47 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,811,723 times
Reputation: 1300
Regarding the Holy Spirit specifically, this is how the Bible emphasizes that the H.S. is God

Fact: The H.S. is called God

Matthew28:19 (see previous post)
Acts 5:3-4 (see previous post)
1 Corinthians 3:16
Donít you know that you yourselves are Godís temple and that Godís Spirit dwells in your midst?
------------------------------------------------
The H.S. is described as having characteristics only God possesses:

Psalm 139:7-8 (Omnipresent)
Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there
.

Hebrews 9:14 (Eternal)
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself
unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may
serve the living God!

1 Corinthians 2:10(Omniscient)
these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things
, even the deep things of God.
----------------------------------------------------------------

The H.S. does work only God can do

Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and
empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over
the waters.
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Romans 8:27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for Godís people in accordance with the will of God.
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that ... no one can say, ďJesus is Lord,Ē except by the Holy Spirit.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Why would he leave if he was just going to come back? You think he sends himself? There is a distinction made between him and the Spirit.

He didn't. He said he would send the helper, or the Comforter.

Who do you mean by "him"? THe Spirit? That's because the Spirit is not a physical person.


That is what he means by sending the Spirit. The context is talking about him sending a different person than himself. He is God....so he will show himself to them in the person of the Spirit -- and he said he won't leave us hanging.


Now will you answer my qeustion? God appeared to Abraham in Genesis 17. How was that? Was it the Spirit? Was it God the Father? Who appeared to him?
thanks for the response.
#1. He came back on Pentecost. remember he said "I will not leave you comfortless". and remember he said that he would "MANIFEST" himself to them, Listen, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. so when did he MANIFEST himself?

#2. who sent the Helper, before we answer, the Lord Jesus cannot lie right. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever". John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". NOW THIS, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me". now please tell us who sent the comforter/Holy Spirit. now remember the Lord Jesus cannot LIE. in John 14:26 the Lord Jesus said, that the Father will send the comforter, but in John 15:26 he said that he will send the comforter.

now either the Lord Jesus is lying, which I don;t believe, or either he and the Father is the same person. take you pick.

#3. you also said, "The context is talking about him sending a different person than himself". another ERROR on your part. for he is the Comforter in Flesh, and returning as the comforter without flesh. see the Greek word for ANOTHER is G243 ALLOS, which means, a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. a numerical difference is TWO of the same, meaning the SAME person, in another form, here without flesh, without bone, and without blood. just as the apostle Peter said in 1 Peter 1:10-11., read it again.. because "Sort" means in this case the SAME PERSON. and this is what the Lord Jesus was in the OT Spirit. and this Spirit is the Father.

I suggest you re-read this post again.

PCY
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Regarding the Holy Spirit specifically, this is how the Bible emphasizes that the H.S. is God

Fact: The H.S. is called God

Matthew28:19 (see previous post)
Acts 5:3-4 (see previous post)
1 Corinthians 3:16
Donít you know that you yourselves are Godís temple and that Godís Spirit dwells in your midst?
------------------------------------------------
The H.S. is described as having characteristics only God possesses:

Psalm 139:7-8 (Omnipresent)
Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there
.

Hebrews 9:14 (Eternal)
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself
unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may
serve the living God!

1 Corinthians 2:10(Omniscient)
these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things
, even the deep things of God.
----------------------------------------------------------------

The H.S. does work only God can do

Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and
empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over
the waters.
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Romans 8:27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for Godís people in accordance with the will of God.
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that ... no one can say, ďJesus is Lord,Ē except by the Holy Spirit.
twin.spin, CORRECT. the Holy Spirit is JESUS without flesh. and the Holy Spirit is JESUS with flesh. the difference is that the JESUS shared himself in another nature. it's share vs separation. that's the Only Difference. thanks.

PCY.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:23 AM
 
16,067 posts, read 9,242,262 times
Reputation: 7162
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
thanks for the response.
#1. He came back on Pentecost. remember he said "I will not leave you comfortless". and remember he said that he would "MANIFEST" himself to them, Listen, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. so when did he MANIFEST himself?

#2. who sent the Helper, before we answer, the Lord Jesus cannot lie right. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever". John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". NOW THIS, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me". now please tell us who sent the comforter/Holy Spirit. now remember the Lord Jesus cannot LIE. in John 14:26 the Lord Jesus said, that the Father will send the comforter, but in John 15:26 he said that he will send the comforter.

now either the Lord Jesus is lying, which I don;t believe, or either he and the Father is the same person. take you pick.

#3. you also said, "The context is talking about him sending a different person than himself". another ERROR on your part. for he is the Comforter in Flesh, and returning as the comforter without flesh. see the Greek word for ANOTHER is G243 ALLOS, which means, a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. a numerical difference is TWO of the same, meaning the SAME person, in another form, here without flesh, without bone, and without blood. just as the apostle Peter said in 1 Peter 1:10-11., read it again.. because "Sort" means in this case the SAME PERSON. and this is what the Lord Jesus was in the OT Spirit. and this Spirit is the Father.

I suggest you re-read this post again.

PCY
Yes, the way Trinitarians use the verses they are supporting Oneness not the Trinity.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:24 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,811,723 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I'm not sure he really wants to look at the obvious teaching of Scripture. It seems to be a common tactic what he's doing -- focusing on 1 verse and using THAT as a pretext to read everything else.
Agreed.
1 Corinthians 2:11-12
.... In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God,
so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God
but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only
through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that... no one can say, ďJesus is Lord,Ē except by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14 sums up when it comes to why some people not accepted \find it foolish\ cannot be understood by people (in terms as being the truth as to who the true God is) concerning the Trinity.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
No. The truth is that you can't write a intelligible sentence. I am completely open to hearing other people's viewpoints, provided they are capable of expressing them.
well the writers of the bible are writing intelligible sentence and it seem like you are not understanding those view points. are they expressing their view points wrong?

it's not not about any intelligible sentence writing at all. it's about hearing or not hearing other people's viewpoints if they don't line up with yours. this is just my Opinion.

Let's see if I can write a understandable question. "In Revelation 1:4 & 5, is this letter from three persons, two, or one person?". And persons here meaning. A. Father. B. Son. C. Holy Spirit.

PCY
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:41 AM
 
16,067 posts, read 9,242,262 times
Reputation: 7162
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Regarding the Holy Spirit specifically, this is how the Bible emphasizes that the H.S. is God

Fact: The H.S. is called God

Matthew28:19 (see previous post)
Acts 5:3-4 (see previous post)
1 Corinthians 3:16
Nope:

KJV Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1. The use of the expression "name of" does not indicate equality in any way.

Genesis 48:6 6 And thy issue, which thou begettest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.

They had different names and were not the same being or person.
Genesis 48:16 16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Again not the same person and inf act vastly different.

2. Matt 28:19, 20 is questionable verse as it does not show up in the oldest manuscripts so it should not be sued as a proof verse on a subject it is not directly and clearly addressing and the word God is not used in it.

Jews hearing these words would know that it had nothing to do with the future man made Trinity doctrine. Those who do not read the Bible will accept anything.

KJV Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? KJV

Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

1. But they did lie to man, so are those men really God or is this a way of showing how they had acted towards God?
KJV Acts 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.1

1. This shows the Holy Spirit was not a person but "of the Lord" and the possessive indicates a part of the Lord, not a separate person. Context which has to be ignored to get any idea of a Trinity.

2. If the Holy Spirit IS God, then in context it is the Father, so Oneness as the Jews had no concept of a multi person God and used the term "God" of God the Father, unless the context clearly shows it applies to another "God". No support for the Trinity at all.


Corinthians 3:16 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Yes, the spirit "OF" God, not God directly. The Spirit is the power of God, and that is the way He deals with Man since as Moses found you can't deal directly with God as He is Pure and we are not.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:45 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 11 days ago)
 
5,285 posts, read 1,328,038 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Nope:

KJV Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1. The use of the expression "name of" does not indicate equality in any way.

Genesis 48:6 6 And thy issue, which thou begettest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.

They had different names and were not the same being or person.
Genesis 48:16 16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Again not the same person and inf act vastly different.

2. Matt 28:19, 20 is questionable verse as it does not show up in the oldest manuscripts so it should not be sued as a proof verse on a subject it is not directly and clearly addressing and the word God is not used in it.

Jews hearing these words would know that it had nothing to do with the future man made Trinity doctrine. Those who do not read the Bible will accept anything.

KJV Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? KJV

Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

1. But they did lie to man, so are those men really God or is this a way of showing how they had acted towards God?
KJV Acts 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.1

1. This shows the Holy Spirit was not a person but "of the Lord" and the possessive indicates a part of the Lord, not a separate person. Context which has to be ignored to get any idea of a Trinity.

2. If the Holy Spirit IS God, then in context it is the Father, so Oneness as the Jews had no concept of a multi person God and used the term "God" of God the Father, unless the context clearly shows it applies to another "God". No support for the Trinity at all.


Corinthians 3:16 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Yes, the spirit "OF" God, not God directly. The Spirit is the power of God, and that is the way He deals with Man since as Moses found you can't deal directly with God as He is Pure and we are not.
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