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Old 01-11-2018, 06:35 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
Thanks for your reply. and second, nor is the views I hold are yours. but we're here to discuss, not to argue. I have view video’s like the one you posted. had to quit watching, because he was going further in the rabbit hole with no light at the end. This is one of the worst explanation I have view. Even masonic Jews with Compound unity is closer to the truth that this person. Oh well… leave that alone.
If you're talking about Heiser's lecture you're not qualified to refute what he said. He wasn't teaching anything that scholars don't already know. The Two Powers in Heaven view was a belief within Judaism, among other beliefs.


Quote:
But to the facts of two or three. two is correct as ONE, or as the bible say, the “OFFSPRING” of the Spirit. Which is not biological. The two is what the Greeks calls ANOTHER, or G243 allos. How easy can it get. Father and son are just that, “.TITLES”. sorry you didn’t look up the definition of “form” in Philippians 2:6. the proverb is true, "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him” Proverbs 18:13.

Now to the NAME of God.
I must disagree with the assessment of the Tetragrammaton as God Personal name as to “WHO” he is. Jehovah, AKA Yahweh is not God Personal name. lets see how they derived those names from the tetragrammaton. The word "JEHOVAH" was formed by merging the three vowels (e, o, and a) into the Romanized (Latinized) four letter version JHVH to get, JeHoVaH. and the word "YAHWEH" was formed by merging the vowels (a, and e), into the four letter version to get, YaHWeH. so we have the English man made, and the Hebrew man made form of God's supposed unpronounced name. here is the mistake. they, (the translator), added vowels to the four letter consonant, to make up a name to pronounce. one can never add or take away from the WORD of God. they added vowels to give God a personal name, because they knew that YHWH is a verb, and not a noun. and because the suppose name was lost, (as they say), which the Jews said was forbidden to pronounce, they made a guess at the name where pointers should be. this was a grave mistake on their part. when you add to the word of God you just put the noose around your neck. arbitrarily, the translators injected the vowels into the four letter consonant to come up with the names, "YaHWeH", and, "JeHoVaH".

Now, the book of Enoch, which the person in the video used. Well that book have been debunked.

The Case Against the Book of Enoch - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIXeDYIYf8Q

PCY

The Book of Enoch was not debunked. While it was not canonical, it was popular among Jews and early Christians and the New Testament writers made good use of it. And I don't mean just Jude and 2 Peter. Quite a bit of 1 Enoch made its way into the New Testament.

By the way, I know what μορφῇ - morphē means.

Last edited by Mike555; 01-11-2018 at 06:57 PM.. Reason: Changed the word 'known' to 'know'.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
well the writers of the bible are writing intelligible sentence and it seem like you are not understanding those view points. are they expressing their view points wrong?
I believe the writers of the Bible were able to express themselves very adequately -- which is not to say that you and I will always interpret them the same way.

Quote:
it's not not about any intelligible sentence writing at all. it's about hearing or not hearing other people's viewpoints if they don't line up with yours. this is just my Opinion.
Well, you're wrong. And that's not just my opinion.

Quote:
Let's see if I can write a understandable question. "In Revelation 1:4 & 5, is this letter from three persons, two, or one person?". And persons here meaning. A. Father. B. Son. C. Holy Spirit.
I believe this is the revelation given by God to Jesus Christ, and from Him to the seven Churches in Asia. If you disagree, I'd be more than willing to hear you out.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,560 posts, read 1,403,347 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you're talking about Heiser's lecture you're not qualified to refute what he said. He wasn't teaching anything that scholars don't already know. The Two Powers in Heaven view was a belief within Judaism, among other beliefs.





The Book of Enoch was not debunked. While it was not canonical, it was popular among Jews and early Christians and the New Testament writers made good use of it. And I don't mean just Jude and 2 Peter. Quite a bit of 1 Enoch made its way into the New Testament.

By the way, I know what μορφῇ - morphē means.
#1. First thanks for your response. and two I'm not getting into any petty debate for a tit for tat on who's or who is not a scholar. for the scriptures are true, Romans 3:4a "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar".

#2. now it's two powers in heavens, and that's still incorrect. IT"S ONLY ONE POWER.

#3. U know what morphē means?, do you know what's it root means? I guess not.

well now it 2, 3 ain't working any more? it never did.

well now we'll work on the two.

Let's start off with Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". I have asked this question before, and no one seem to answer it. "Who sent his angel to John? since we're down to two now. was it the Father or the son who sent his angel to John? but read Revelation 22:6 first, because the angel tells us who sent him.

again thanks for the response, and I'll be looking for your answer.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,560 posts, read 1,403,347 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I believe the writers of the Bible were able to express themselves very adequately -- which is not to say that you and I will always interpret them the same way.

Well, you're wrong. And that's not just my opinion.

I believe this is the revelation given by God to Jesus Christ, and from Him to the seven Churches in Asia. If you disagree, I'd be more than willing to hear you out.
u said the Revelation is Given by "GOD". is not the TERM God means, and include Father, son, and Holy Spirit?


but My answer is CLEAR, from "ONE" person Jesus the Christ, who is the Spirit. do you agree?.

now your answer.

PCY
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:20 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
#1. First thanks for your response. and two I'm not getting into any petty debate for a tit for tat on who's or who is not a scholar. for the scriptures are true, Romans 3:4a "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar".

#2. now it's two powers in heavens, and that's still incorrect. IT"S ONLY ONE POWER.
Two powers in heaven is the term used by Jewish rabbis' to describe the passages in the Old Testament which indicate that Yahweh is not just one 'person.' The late Jewish scholar Alan Segal wrote a book entitled 'Two Powers in Heaven' in which he, being a Jew, considered the two powers belief which existed in Judaism to be a heresy, but traces the belief as far back as he can.

Quote:
#3. U know what morphē means?, do you know what's it root means? I guess not.
Not getting into any petty debate you say? You're sounding a bit petty to me.

Quote:
well now it 2, 3 ain't working any more? it never did.
You're just spitting into the wind. The Hebrew Bible, as I said, one verse of which I already showed, paints a picture of two powers in heaven, not in conflict with one another as in Gnosticism, but two personages who are in full agreement with each other. The New Testament with it's progressive revelation shows that there are three persons who are identified as God.


Quote:
well now we'll work on the two.

Let's start off with Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". I have asked this question before, and no one seem to answer it. "Who sent his angel to John? since we're down to two now. was it the Father or the son who sent his angel to John? but read Revelation 22:6 first, because the angel tells us who sent him.

again thanks for the response, and I'll be looking for your answer.
No, we are not down to two now. The Bible is progressive in its revelation. While the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament reveals a duality, the New Testament writers extend it to three persons.

Why are you asking who sent His angel to John in Revelation when it clearly tells you that God [the Father] gave the Revelation to Jesus to show to His bond-servants, and He [Jesus] sent and communicated the Revelation to John by His angel?

Look, I've been over this view of yours with you in the past, I think about two years ago or so, and I'm not going to take the time to get into it with you again. Take it up with someone else. My post to which you replied was addressed to kjw47 who has not replied back. The New Testament clearly shows that there are three distinct persons who are identified as God. Your denial of this doesn't change it.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
u said the Revelation is Given by "GOD". is not the TERM God means, and include Father, son, and Holy Spirit?


but My answer is CLEAR, from "ONE" person Jesus the Christ, who is the Spirit. do you agree?.

now your answer.

PCY
Okay, I'll attempt to respond to this post, but after this, I would suggest we not try to communicate with each other any more. It's just not working.

I believe that the term "God" can refer to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost collectively, or to any one of them individually. I do not believe that Jesus Christ is the same personage as the Holy Spirit.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,243 posts, read 4,228,306 times
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I don't see the big deal, I am body, soul and spirit and although these are 3 that may think from a different direction, I am still the waters, the blood and the spirit as the 3 in the garden represented, and as Cain, Abel and Seth represented, as the 3 sons of Noah, as Abram and his two siblings, as Moses and his two siblings. It is always a representation of what we are that we are Esau and Jacob who struggle flesh and spirit and a new man is created out of the struggle. We have 3 progressive feasts that teach about a progressive temple in 3 sections that mirror and shadow the 3 sections of the after life, as the city will be divided in 3, and there shall always be a third of the kingdom that shall fall.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:42 PM
 
472 posts, read 120,673 times
Reputation: 30
When I was a small boy, I thought that the Holy Trinity was composed of: God the Father (Joseph), God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit (Mary). It turned out to be Holy Family. What was your experience?
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:32 AM
 
3,417 posts, read 1,254,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacecrusader888 View Post
When I was a small boy, I thought that the Holy Trinity was composed of: God the Father (Joseph), God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit (Mary). It turned out to be Holy Family. What was your experience?
So they didn't teach you correctly right from the begining till the spirit of Ama had to intervene?
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,560 posts, read 1,403,347 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Okay, I'll attempt to respond to this post, but after this, I would suggest we not try to communicate with each other any more. It's just not working.

I believe that the term "God" can refer to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost collectively, or to any one of them individually. I do not believe that Jesus Christ is the same personage as the Holy Spirit.
GINOLJC, to all. that's incorrect. the TERM according to you must refer to the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit at all times, during the same time. for your doctrine say God =all 3 at the same time. to say that they are separate, and used at your convenience then you have 3 separate God. that's just the bottom line. else use the term Father by itself, or used the term son by itself, or used the term Holy Spirit by itself. but that prospect want work, will it... (smile), it will exposes your doctrine as untrue. if it's the Father speaking then say the Father, or whoever is speaking or doing. see, hiding behind the General term God then one can say oh it's the father speaking, or oh it's the Son, or oh it's the Holy Spirit. that's nothing but Modalism in reverse. let me say this again, when one have 3 person doing one thing at a time it's nothing but Modalism in reverse.

what I believe is one person who is the SHARE of himself in flesh, hence two numerically. this is what the BIBLE says, and this numerically difference is know in the scriptures as the OFFSPRING. scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". here the term "offspring" is the Greek word,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock

"kin" like in kinsman "redeemer". and to be a kin, or kinsman redeemer, Jesus/God/the Father shared himself in flesh as Philippians 2:6-8 states. and as for the definition I use to describe the Godhead, "Diversified Oneness" it comes from the Greek word G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n. it can be translated by the KJV as "diversity"

God/JESUS/Son as the offspring in flesh is what the Greeks call G243 Allos. that's the numerical Difference (meaning more that one, hence two). this is the unity or duality that the Jews struggle with. and the separation of 3 person, which you and the trinity doctrine ignorantly misunderstand.

diversity properly places the Holy Spirit correctly in the Godhead, not some 3rd. person in some man made doctrine. but the First PERSON, who is shared "with", "and", is "Also" the Last ONE, who is the ONLY PERSON in the Godhead. simple, sharing vs separation.

********* this is very important in understanding the Godhead image. it's "ANOTHER" of one self. it's the LAST ADAM. what do I mean here. JESUS is the EQUAL share of himself in flesh. he is the Adam of God/the Father on earth, meaning "ANOTHER" like God in IMAGE ONLY. see, Adam is translated as "ANOTHER" of God in Flesh. this is the IMAGE of God on Earth.
ADAM: H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

see how the KJV can translate Adam as "ANOTHER". Eve is the Another of the first man Adam. she is the SHARE of the First Adam. because she shares Adam make up, but she have her own form, shape, and figure, but the same flesh.

the Greeks had it right, when they identified this unity/duality as G243 allos. it means a numerical difference. Eve is the numerical difference, "ANOTHER" of Adam, how simple is it. that's why God call their name "ADAM", see Genesis 5:2. this is why the apostle Paul said, there is no excuse in knowing this, meaning the godhead. some people make it out to be some mystery. no, listen. Romans 1:18-20 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse". you're without excuse, as the topic said, "it's no mystery anymore" so why stay in darkness, in a mystery?. the IMAGE of the Godkind is mankind, ANOTHER of one self. how easy can it get, oh so simple.

I suggest one re-read this post for clarity.

PCY
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