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Old 01-12-2018, 08:09 AM
 
690 posts, read 395,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
I read Jesus' answer in reply at John 10:36 where Jesus states he is the Son of God.
exactly! sadly many will direct one to "listen" to Jesus, yet they themselves refuse to do so! Jesus SHOWED his true followers all day long, that he has a Father and a God ,(John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). see also (Matt. 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother). and (Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother).

sadly MANY refuse to hear/see the words of the one they claim to follow! when Jesus said he and his Father were one. he didn't mean they were one being, but they were in total agreement with everything. also some has said Jesus was Son on Earth, but the Father in Heaven. yet again this scriptures shows there's a Father AND... a Son in Heaven ,(Psa. 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool). NOTICE , the lord in caps and in lower case. LORD =Jehovah, the God of Israel ,(Exo. 6:3), and Lord =Jesus, the Son John 3:16). people better stop before it's too late! peace
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
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Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". O God is the Definite article, the Son is just a title of the Spirit/God shared in flesh as well as the title of the Spirit/God without flesh, Father.

People just don't get it by faith. if the Son is a separate being, then one have two Gods. plain and simple. but if the Son is the SHARE of the ONE Spirit/God, then there is only ONE God.

the answer to the Godhead is Sharing vs Separation. separation is division, which produce two different beings, hence two Gods.

but the one question that can clear this matter up quickly is this one. "Who is the actual father of the Child that Mary gave Birth to?". mind you, one need to read, Matthew 1:19 first. "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

Hold it, the Holy Ghost is the one who conceived the Child in Mary's womb, YES. so by definition the Holy Ghost is really the actual father of that which was born by Mary. one don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that the one who conceives a child is the Father of that child. and the scriptures are clear, the Holy Ghost is the FATHER of that child from Mary's womb.

knowing that, who is this so-called first person called the father when the actual father, the Holy Spirit is called a third person?

PCY
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:45 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50 View Post
exactly! sadly many will direct one to "listen" to Jesus, yet they themselves refuse to do so! Jesus SHOWED his true followers all day long, that he has a Father and a God ,(John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). see also (Matt. 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother). and (Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother).

sadly MANY refuse to hear/see the words of the one they claim to follow! when Jesus said he and his Father were one. he didn't mean they were one being, but they were in total agreement with everything. also some has said Jesus was Son on Earth, but the Father in Heaven. yet again this scriptures shows there's a Father AND... a Son in Heaven ,(Psa. 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool). NOTICE , the lord in caps and in lower case. LORD =Jehovah, the God of Israel ,(Exo. 6:3), and Lord =Jesus, the Son John 3:16). people better stop before it's too late! peace
And yet, in the passage below, the writer of Hebrews has God the Father speaking to God the Son, calling the Son God, stating that He is the Son's God, and stating that it was God the Son who created the heavens and the earth.
Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom 9] You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10] And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of Your hands; 11] They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12] like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But You are the same, and Your years will have no end.”
The Father is God, and according to the Father, the Son is God (the Creator of the heavens and the earth), and though not mentioned in the above passage, the Holy Spirit is God.

Now, who are the ones who are refusing to listen???
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,267 posts, read 20,872,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
GINOLJC, to all. that's incorrect. the TERM according to you must refer to the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit at all times, during the same time.
If you say so. I mean, you write so persuasively and eloquently that it's hard not to be taken in by everything you say.

Quote:
I suggest one re-read this post for clarity.
Not sure that would do much good.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
Reputation: 111
I’m going to make a bold statement here. When one first read this statement, most Christian brain will automatically say, no that is not true. And here it is. The Lord Jesus have no biological Father. STOP and let that soak in. Now here’s the bold part. He also have no spiritual Father. Let that soak in. I know what many are saying right now, the scripture says he have a father and a God.

Are you kidding. If the Lord Jesus who is God have a God then one have two God, and that’s anti bible as well as anti God. For the scripture are clear. Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any”. He do not know any. So the God have a God theory is out. Well what about a Father. Using the same scripture, John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God”.

Question was God this Mary’s actual father biologically? No, but Spiritually, yes. so when the Lord Jesus on earth in flesh say my Father (in heaven, the Spirit world), he is saying my Spirit, "my" shows possession
if EQUAL, meaning the same. for God is a Spirit and he came from the Spirit, because he’s the EQUAL share, (see Phil 2:6). and when someone is “EQUAL” they are not second in possession. but in this case with humans "my" is a possession of second person. when God the Father speak from heaven and say”MY” Son. God the Spirit without flesh in heaven is saying “MY“ body on earth. he own's that body it's his OWN "ARM". supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". who is his OWN "ARM" see Isaiah 53:1. so the Father and the Son is the SAME person, who many calls the HOLY SPIRIT. the Holy Spirit is the Father WITHOUT FLESH. and the Holy Spirit is the Son SHARED IN FLESH better know as the OFFSPRING. that's bible 101.

Understand JESUS/God have no Father, and no Mother. Mary only birthed a body. Supportive scripture, Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me”. and the Lord Jesus said this in the OT by the prophet David. Psalms 40:6 & 7 "Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. 7 "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me”.

Conclusion the Lord Jesus is God existing before he came in flesh (that answer the "US" and the "OUR" in Genesis 1:26 as "HE", and "HIM". Understand, a woman can only birth flesh and bone and blood. A woman cannot birth a spirit. A spirit is given by God/Jesus. And the Lord Jesus “gave” the share of himself in flesh. This is called the diversity of God or as the bible say the “OFFSPRING” who is JESUS. Supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star”.

The ROOT is the Father, that's JESUS without flesh. the OFFSPRING is the Son that's JESUS with flesh.

This is why I asked the question who sent his angel. The one true God JESUS. Amen.

PCY
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
If you say so. I mean, you write so persuasively and eloquently that it's hard not to be taken in by everything you say.

Not sure that would do much good.
please don't take this this the wrong way. so far this have been a very civil conversation, and I thank God and all of you for letting it stay this way.

but a little christian criticism hurts no one. but if I offend you in any way please accept my apologies. charge it to my head and not my heart.

but I thank God that you're reading what I'm saying. my driving point in this discussion is, 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment".

I know what I'm saying maybe new to you, but it's bible. and maybe hard to accept at first, because this maybe the first time hearing about "diversified Oneness". but stay in the conversation, ask question, check out what have been posted. see, be like those in Berea, Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so".

search out what I'm saying is true or not. anyone who have a doctrine and it can't be scrutinize by the scriptures, it's not worth having. so I encourage you to scrutinize what i have been saying, and if I can answer your question hopefully by God I can.

again please accept my apology.

PCY
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:21 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,277 posts, read 10,383,387 times
Reputation: 6937
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
GINOLJC, to all. that's incorrect. the TERM according to you must refer to the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit at all times, during the same time. for your doctrine say God =all 3 at the same time. to say that they are separate, and used at your convenience then you have 3 separate God. that's just the bottom line. else use the term Father by itself, or used the term son by itself, or used the term Holy Spirit by itself. but that prospect want work, will it... (smile), it will exposes your doctrine as untrue. if it's the Father speaking then say the Father, or whoever is speaking or doing. see, hiding behind the General term God then one can say oh it's the father speaking, or oh it's the Son, or oh it's the Holy Spirit. that's nothing but Modalism in reverse. let me say this again, when one have 3 person doing one thing at a time it's nothing but Modalism in reverse.

<snip>
Katzpur (and her religion) do not subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity. It seems to a lot of Christians assume everybody believes this doctrine, but it is simply not so.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Katzpur (and her religion) do not subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity. It seems to a lot of Christians assume everybody believes this doctrine, but it is simply not so.
thanks for that info.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:43 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 12 days ago)
 
5,286 posts, read 1,328,038 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Katzpur (and her religion) do not subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity. It seems to a lot of Christians assume everybody believes this doctrine, but it is simply not so.
It was defined as an essential of the faith some 1800 years ago.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,561 posts, read 1,405,482 times
Reputation: 111
To all who follow this thread. instead of pointing out difference between our respective doctrine, maybe the approach should be gain on the similarities of each doctrine.

for example, the Diversified Oneness and the Trinity Doctrine is closer that most think. if it ok, let look at some of the similarities between the two.

#1. we both know that it is one God, who is spirit. for God is "a" Spirit, (John 24:4a). this is his nature. now the sticking point is "Person(s)". How can we resolve the person(s) problem?

Suggestion. let's look at what the bible says about God. the question is definitely about plurality, but the million dollar question how much plurality are there in the Godhead?, two or three, or ONE. let's concentrate on the plurality of the Spirit/God and maybe we can resolve the Person problem.

the first signs in the bible of God's plurality is right in the very first verse of the bible. Genesis 1:1. "1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". but there's something missing in our English Speaking bibles. if one would go to the Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT) at, Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible and click on Genesis 1:1, in the first verse one would see these two letters, אֵ ת
yes, letters and not a word, which was never translated in our English speaking bibles, until now. these two letters are the Pictograph aleph and the Tav. in English it is translated as the First and the Last. and in Greek the alpha and the omega. or simply put the beginning, and the end.

Let's start there for our discussion. by examining God from the beginning we can gain some insight on his plurality.

PCY
PCY
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