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Old 03-21-2017, 01:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You have studied the Jesus that the WT portrays, perhaps, so, yes, in a way they are 100% correct in what they teach because they formulated it...



Actually every teaching from Jesus is in every translation on earth--the same( except for--earth or land at Matt 5:5-- The JW teachers portray the true Jesus.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Its funny--trinity translations contradict Jesus' truth--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--I will believe Jesus first everytime.
Rev 1:1--a revelation of Jesus Christ given to him by God---- did he say--here me have a revelation?= No-- 2 beings there one is God, one is Jesus--cannot be proven any other way.
Out of curiosity, who is the First and the Last "Then I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."? Rev 1

Last edited by MacG2014; 03-21-2017 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:12 PM
 
19,960 posts, read 15,296,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Its funny--trinity translations contradict Jesus' truth--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--I will believe Jesus first everytime.
Rev 1:1--a revelation of Jesus Christ given to him by God---- did he say--here me have a revelation?= No-- 2 beings there one is God, one is Jesus--cannot be proven any other way.
What you believe is the indoctrination of the Jehovah's Witnesses. You refer to Revelation 1:1 while ignoring, or trying to explain away verses such as John 1:1 and Hebrews chapter 1 in which God the Father calls the Son God and states that it was the Son who created the heavens and the earth.

Who created the heavens and the earth according to Genesis 1:1? God did.

Who created the heavens and the earth according to John 1:3, Col. 1:16, Hebrews 1:10-11? Jesus did.
Syllogism:

God created the heavens and the earth.

Jesus created the heavens and the earth.

Therefore, Jesus is God.
John wrote both the Gospel of John and the book of Revelation. In John 1:1 he stated that the Word was with God and was Himself God. John 1:1 states that both the Word and the Father are God. The Word is not the Father, but the Word is God just as the Father is. Revelation 1:1 simply makes a distinction between God the Father and Jesus. It does not deny that Jesus is God.

You referred to John 20:17 (the very Gospel which emphasizes the deity of Jesus) in which Jesus states that He is ascending to ''My God and your God.'' Yet you ignore Hebrews 1:9 in which God the Father says to the Son, ''Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions.''

God the Father called the Son (the Word) God, and then went on to state that it was the Son who laid the foundation of the earth and that the heavens are the works of the Son's hands, meaning that the Son (Jesus) is God in the highest sense of the word, just as the Father is.

When Jesus refers to the Father as His God, there are two aspects to consider. One is that Jesus is both God and man. And speaking from the standpoint of His humanity the Father is His God. The other aspect is that there is an authority structure within the Godhead, and the Father is the authority, and therefore, even though Jesus is Himself fully God, He recognizes the authority of the Father.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:42 PM
 
3,735 posts, read 1,349,419 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What you believe is the indoctrination of the Jehovah's Witnesses. You refer to Revelation 1:1 while ignoring, or trying to explain away verses such as John 1:1 and Hebrews chapter 1 in which God the Father calls the Son God and states that it was the Son who created the heavens and the earth.

Who created the heavens and the earth according to Genesis 1:1? God did.

Who created the heavens and the earth according to John 1:3, Col. 1:16, Hebrews 1:10-11? Jesus did.
Syllogism:

God created the heavens and the earth.

Jesus created the heavens and the earth.

Therefore, Jesus is God.
John wrote both the Gospel of John and the book of Revelation. In John 1:1 he stated that the Word was with God and was Himself God. John 1:1 states that both the Word and the Father are God. The Word is not the Father, but the Word is God just as the Father is. Revelation 1:1 simply makes a distinction between God the Father and Jesus. It does not deny that Jesus is God.

You referred to John 20:17 (the very Gospel which emphasizes the deity of Jesus) in which Jesus states that He is ascending to ''My God and your God.'' Yet you ignore Hebrews 1:9 in which God the Father says to the Son, ''Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions.''

God the Father called the Son (the Word) God, and then went on to state that it was the Son who laid the foundation of the earth and that the heavens are the works of the Son's hands, meaning that the Son (Jesus) is God in the highest sense of the word, just as the Father is.

When Jesus refers to the Father as His God, there are two aspects to consider. One is that Jesus is both God and man. And speaking from the standpoint of His humanity the Father is His God. The other aspect is that there is an authority structure within the Godhead, and the Father is the authority, and therefore, even though Jesus is Himself fully God, He recognizes the authority of the Father.



Trinity translations are filled with errors. trinity translations--contradict what Jesus taught by those errors. Errors to fit false Catholicism council teachings=100% fact of life.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:44 PM
 
3,735 posts, read 1,349,419 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacG2014 View Post
Out of curiosity, who is the First and the Last "Then I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."? Rev 1



Jesus us first in everything--the first born of all creation--created direct first and last--all other things created through him by YHWH. Jesus' God and Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--- God does NOT have a God--Jesus does.
It takes believing Jesus over mens dogma.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:02 PM
 
125 posts, read 50,739 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
...all other things created through him...New Watchtower Translation
Why the the New Watchtower Translation insert the word other when no other translation does?


John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:47 PM
 
19,960 posts, read 15,296,757 times
Reputation: 7177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What you believe is the indoctrination of the Jehovah's Witnesses. You refer to Revelation 1:1 while ignoring, or trying to explain away verses such as John 1:1 and Hebrews chapter 1 in which God the Father calls the Son God and states that it was the Son who created the heavens and the earth.

Who created the heavens and the earth according to Genesis 1:1? God did.

Who created the heavens and the earth according to John 1:3, Col. 1:16, Hebrews 1:10-11? Jesus did.
Syllogism:

God created the heavens and the earth.

Jesus created the heavens and the earth.

Therefore, Jesus is God.
John wrote both the Gospel of John and the book of Revelation. In John 1:1 he stated that the Word was with God and was Himself God. John 1:1 states that both the Word and the Father are God. The Word is not the Father, but the Word is God just as the Father is. Revelation 1:1 simply makes a distinction between God the Father and Jesus. It does not deny that Jesus is God.

You referred to John 20:17 (the very Gospel which emphasizes the deity of Jesus) in which Jesus states that He is ascending to ''My God and your God.'' Yet you ignore Hebrews 1:9 in which God the Father says to the Son, ''Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions.''

God the Father called the Son (the Word) God, and then went on to state that it was the Son who laid the foundation of the earth and that the heavens are the works of the Son's hands, meaning that the Son (Jesus) is God in the highest sense of the word, just as the Father is.

When Jesus refers to the Father as His God, there are two aspects to consider. One is that Jesus is both God and man. And speaking from the standpoint of His humanity the Father is His God. The other aspect is that there is an authority structure within the Godhead, and the Father is the authority, and therefore, even though Jesus is Himself fully God, He recognizes the authority of the Father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Trinity translations are filled with errors. trinity translations--contradict what Jesus taught by those errors. Errors to fit false Catholicism council teachings=100% fact of life.
The Trinitarian view was held long before the ecumenical church councils, the first of which was held in A.D. 325. Tertullian (A.D. c. 160-225) used the term trinitas to describe the plurality of God. In Against Praxeas, chapter 12, he writes;
CHAPTER 12 -- OTHER QUOTATIONS FROM HOLY SCRIPTURE ADDUCED IN PROOF OF THE PLURALITY OF PERSONS IN THE GODHEAD.

If the number of the Trinity also offends you, as if it were not connected in the simple Unity, I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and absolutely One and Singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness;" whereas He ought to have said, "Let me make man in my own image, and after my own likeness," as being a unique and singular Being? In the following passage, however, "Behold the man is become as one of us," He is either deceiving or amusing us in speaking plurally, if He is One only and singular. Or was it to the angels that He spoke, as the Jews interpret the passage, because these also acknowledge not the Son? Or was it because He was at once the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, that He spoke to Himself in plural terms, making Himself plural on that very account? Nay, it was because He had already His Son close at His side, as a second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase, "Let us make;" and, "in our image;" and, "become as one of us." For with whom did He make man? and to whom did He make him like? (The answer must be), the Son on the one hand, who was one day to put on human nature; and the Spirit on the other, who was to sanctify man. With these did He then speak, in the Unity of the Trinity, as with His ministers and witnesses In the following text also He distinguishes among the Persons:

Tertullian (Roberts-Donaldson)
The deity of Jesus was recognized long before Roman Catholicism gained ascendency. Manuscript P66 which is dated to AD. c.175 contains John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Claims that the Roman Catholic church, or that Constantine (AD. c 272-337) invented the deity of Jesus are therefore demonstratively false.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:56 PM
 
3,735 posts, read 1,349,419 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacG2014 View Post
Why the the New Watchtower Translation insert the word other when no other translation does?


John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.



That is simple-- they believe Jesus over dogmas of the schools of men.
Here is the being who came to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal--Prov 8= Gods master worker--can be none other than Jesus whom all other things created through. Prov 8:22-- Produced me( created direct-first and last) as the beginning of your way( creation)
Coll 1:15-- The FIRSTBORN of all CREATION.


Its The new world translation. Greek scholars, not being paid by trinity $$$ says its the best translation ever.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:58 PM
 
3,735 posts, read 1,349,419 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacG2014 View Post
Out of curiosity, who is the First and the Last "Then I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."? Rev 1



The bible shows Jesus was first and last in many things--being created direct-first and last is the first one.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:01 PM
 
3,735 posts, read 1,349,419 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Trinitarian view was held long before the ecumenical church councils, the first of which was held in A.D. 325. Tertullian (A.D. c. 160-225) used the term trinitas to describe the plurality of God. In Against Praxeas, chapter 12, he writes;
CHAPTER 12 -- OTHER QUOTATIONS FROM HOLY SCRIPTURE ADDUCED IN PROOF OF THE PLURALITY OF PERSONS IN THE GODHEAD.

If the number of the Trinity also offends you, as if it were not connected in the simple Unity, I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and absolutely One and Singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness;" whereas He ought to have said, "Let me make man in my own image, and after my own likeness," as being a unique and singular Being? In the following passage, however, "Behold the man is become as one of us," He is either deceiving or amusing us in speaking plurally, if He is One only and singular. Or was it to the angels that He spoke, as the Jews interpret the passage, because these also acknowledge not the Son? Or was it because He was at once the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, that He spoke to Himself in plural terms, making Himself plural on that very account? Nay, it was because He had already His Son close at His side, as a second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase, "Let us make;" and, "in our image;" and, "become as one of us." For with whom did He make man? and to whom did He make him like? (The answer must be), the Son on the one hand, who was one day to put on human nature; and the Spirit on the other, who was to sanctify man. With these did He then speak, in the Unity of the Trinity, as with His ministers and witnesses In the following text also He distinguishes among the Persons:

Tertullian (Roberts-Donaldson)
The deity of Jesus was recognized long before Roman Catholicism gained ascendency. Manuscript P66 which is dated to AD. c.175 contains John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Claims that the Roman Catholic church, or that Constantine (AD. c 272-337) invented the deity of Jesus are therefore demonstratively false.





Jesus, Peter, Paul, Matthew,etc--all were taught, served and worshipped a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah) while they attended the synagogues and temples. Jesus showed all at the moneychangers in Gods temple of how zealous he was for his Fathers name--Jesus would-NEVER- attend a place of worship teaching a false god--the trinity was created well after Jesus, apostles and followers were all killed. Rome took it over and twisted it.
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