Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Growing up, I thought Christians were supposed to oppose abortion. But regardless, people have did a good job at destroying the more right-wing Christianity. It's the left-wing Christians that are defining Christianity today.
There are plenty of right wing Christian churches. Find one. Try a PCA church. We are about as right wing as they come.
1) Matthew 13:20-22
“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: ....
The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at
once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away."
2) Jesus' teachings offend John 6:60-66
many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
.... Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?"
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
3) 1 Timothy 4:1"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
4) 2 Timothy 4:3"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
An example of 2 Timothy 4:3 is the great number of teachers to say "OSAS"
Honest question time.
Why would Jesus save someone if He knew they were going to walk away and then no longer be saved?
Do you believe He saves people and then rescinds His salvation, (then grants it again, then rescinds it again), based upon when a person's last grave sin or repentant confession and turning back to Jesus might have been?
Do you believe that Jesus in His power and majesty is going to save someone and then lose them? If so, why? Why would he sanctify someone then condemn them later on? Why not just never save them?
Why would Jesus save someone if He knew they were going to walk away and then no longer be saved?
Do you believe He saves people and then rescinds His salvation, (then grants it again, then rescinds it again), based upon when a person's last grave sin or repentant confession and turning back to Jesus might have been?
Do you believe that Jesus in His power and majesty is going to save someone and then lose them? If so, why? Why would he sanctify someone then condemn them later on? Why not just never save them?
Like when Peter DENIED Jesus THREE times??? Gotta wonder what Christ was thinking when making Peter a disciple huh?
Why would Jesus save someone if He knew they were going to walk away and then no longer be saved?
Do you believe He saves people and then rescinds His salvation, (then grants it again, then rescinds it again), based upon when a person's last grave sin or repentant confession and turning back to Jesus might have been?
Do you believe that Jesus in His power and majesty is going to save someone and then lose them? If so, why? Why would he sanctify someone then condemn them later on? Why not just never save them?
People are not robots. A believer can turn away from Jesus and lose his or her salvation because they failed to water and feed the soil; the grass withers away from indifference and/or willful disobedience.
John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned
Like when Peter DENIED Jesus THREE times??? Gotta wonder what Christ was thinking when making Peter a disciple huh?
Well, of course Jesus already knew that would happen before He ever "met" Peter. And Jesus told Peter that Peter would deny Him three times, before it even happened, but Peter perhaps in his pride did not think it was possible. Yet, it was.
Mark 14:30-31, "And Jesus said to him, 'Truly I say to you, that this very night, before a rooster crows twice, you yourself will deny Me three times.' But Peter kept saying insistently, 'Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!' And they all were saying the same thing also."
Jesus prayed in intercession for Peter knowing he would deny Him.
Luke 22:31-32, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
And after the resurrection, Jesus three times told Peter to tend to His sheep.
John 21:15-17 "So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, 'Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?' He said to Him, 'Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.' He said to him, 'Tend My lambs.' He said to him again a second time, 'Simon, son of John, do you love Me?' He said to Him, 'Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.' He said to him, 'Shepherd My sheep.' He said to him the third time, 'Simon, son of John, do you love Me?' Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, 'Do you love Me?' And he said to Him, 'Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.' Jesus said to him, 'Tend My sheep.'"
To me it's a great example of the love, compassion and forbearance of our omniscient Savior. He knew Peter would deny Him, three times!, and yet loved Peter and understood his temptations and sins and gave Him an important place in His church. The denials and their aftermath rendered Peter a changed and humbled man as his letters clearly show.
God knows our weaknesses and our past, present and future sins and failing better than we ourselves know them. Hence I think He knows what He's doing when He chooses to save someone. Such is my opinion.
I specifically said that IF a person has NEVER believed in Christ he is not a Christian in the first place. I then said that if a person has believed in Christ he cannot lose his salvation. I said nothing about a person who has abandoned the truth not being a Christian in the first place. You might try taking the time to actually read what someone writes.
Actually I do read what someone writes and I know what the OSAS heresy makes itself up to be via insinuation at the very least.
Most people know that to keep OSAS intact, one has to obfuscate phrases like "remain to the end" \ "fall away" into some on-going rambling recital that will conclude at some point (spoken or inferred) that such a person was " not a Christian in the first place."
I've read it ... I personally heard from those who've been told it .... OSAS theology is one of the distorting of the truth that Acts 20:30 warns
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
You just said that the Scriptures teach both eternal security and that one can lose their salvation. By doing so you have violated the law of non-contradiction which is that something cannot be so and not be so at the same time. And that is after having already stated that OSAS is a perverse thing.
I've already provided two passages which demonstrate the reality of the believer's eternal security.
Again, you are importing your opinion that eternal security is a perverse thing into Acts 20:30. The verse neither says or implies any such thing.
You also don't make any sense.
1) It's not my opinion that Scriptures both i.e.
Eternal security: 2 Timothy 4:18
One can lose: Matthew 13:20-22 \ John 6:60-66 \ 1 Timothy 4:1 \ 2 Timothy 4:3 (among others)
2) "violated the law of non-contradiction": in other words the teachings of scripture can only be the truth as long as it fits into human confines of rational wisdom which can be intertwined ... never stand alone truths (non intertwined) \ parallel truths.
3) Of course I don't make sense to folks like yourself since scriptures do not teach many of the Baptistic \ Reformed theologies.
Last edited by twin.spin; 03-06-2017 at 08:47 AM..
The underlined - IMO I think they go hand in hand on the most part which GOD hates.
Even with Catholicism you now have ex priests who left religion that when they questioned the Catholic magisterium (another joke of a group) about what's in the Bible that contradicts the Catholic teachings, those priests were told in essence that to omit what they read and do it their Catholic way or pound sand in a matter of speaking.
So in your opinion the Bible is no good?
imho--the bible is a GREAT encouragement and tells some excellent stories about an ancient civilization that was clueless about humanity, mercy and justice (the OT) The story evolved into one of LOVE and ACCEPTANCE (in the NT) but still the people were unable (unwilling?) to put that into practice...
There is a God, but the bible is not an instruction manual nor is it a how to book that provides practical insights that are relevant to us in the 21st century.
Foe example, the church says of the 613 laws in the OT, ONLY ONE remains in effect--THE HATE FOR LGBTQ people...so we are supposed to ignore the other 612?
Jesus was the FULFILLMENT of the laws, yet the church claims we are UNDER THE LAW still today?
Seems the only ones who are doing the HATING are those self-proclaimed mouth-pieces for god..
Why are we expected to believe any god was so active 3000 years ago and suddenly DISAPPEARED?? leaving only an ancient book to manipulate and control us?
Why are we so willing and EAGER to believe that GOD no longer speaks????
If God spoke then, God continues to speak today--we just have to be still and listen...
1) Matthew 13:20-22
“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: ....
The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at
once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away."
2) Jesus' teachings offend John 6:60-66
many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
.... Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?"
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
3) 1 Timothy 4:1"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
4) 2 Timothy 4:3"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
An example of 2 Timothy 4:3 is the great number of teachers to say "OSAS"
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark
Honest question time.
Why would Jesus save someone if He knew they were going to walk away and then no longer be saved?
Depending on what you have in mind when asking this, there a several answers:
1) Why would Jesus save anybody in the first place? Isaiah 53:3 \ Romans 5:8 \ Romans 7:18
2) For starters Jesus' explanation of the sower and the seed gives some insight as to the circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark
Do you believe He saves people and then rescinds His salvation, (then grants it again, then rescinds it again), based upon when a person's last grave sin or repentant confession and turning back to Jesus might have been?
No. That indicates more of what you believe based on reason.
I believe a person can fall from faith because the Bible says he can (Hebrews 10:26-31, 1 Corinthians 10:12).
I however don’t base this conclusion on reason. But on a this common principle of daily life: if I
give you a gift of money, you have not done anything to earn it, but if you foolishly throw it away you
lose the benefit of the gift.
Faith and forgiveness is a pure gift, but the person who throws them away loses the blessing that was his... salvation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark
Do you believe that Jesus in His power and majesty is going to save someone and then lose them? If so, why? Why would he sanctify someone then condemn them later on? Why not just never save them?
It's not that Jesus loses them but the other way around ... some people loses Jesus on their own volition or due to events that causes them renounce their faith.
Last edited by twin.spin; 03-06-2017 at 10:30 AM..
The OP does not ask if he is a Christian or not, so quit discussing "what is a real Christian"
The OP does not ask if the bible is true or not, so stop discussing that too.
We have many open threads on those two subjects if you want to discuss those topics.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
