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God wants relationship with the beings He created, however, His nature mandates separation from all sin.
Nonsense. Sin is a wrong state of mind, NOT a disease. God IS love, so any state of mind that is NOT love is incompatible and must be changed to love (repentance).
Quote:
The wages of sin is death, which is separation from the source of life.
God used Christ as an acceptable sacrifice to pay the wages of sin for anyone who believes in Him.
This whole notion of payment is preposterous. There was nothing to pay for, just something to correct and make up for. We were NOT love so we needed one of us to become love for us. Jesus became perfect agape love equal to God and all humans were forever connected to God and never to be separated again.
Hey, speak for yourself...none...none ...of my friends do that, nor do I.
and you are good at reading your own and your friends hearts?
yet the scripture says
proverbs says ...
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart. ...
A person thinks everything he does is right, but the LORD weighs hearts. ...
If you say, "See, we did not know this," Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
it takes the Lord to really know and discern a persons heart and it's true intent .
and you think YOU can do that for others.?
so sorry if I don't believe your heart or your judgement of your friends heart either .
9"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? 10"I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
might I suggest we let Him decide who's heart is good enough.
and might I suggest you or your friends hearts might not are being tested by the Lord or anyone ,
for anyone to know what is going on in there either .
or they would know what they are really made of and most of the time it probably ain't so great.
or they are not using HIM as the standard of what Good enough is , they are using other humans .
Using the son as our standards is a must by the way and He is the goal of our salvation.
because He is first of many brethren. the second Adam.. etc
so will I consider mine evil until , he can tell me it is good enough.
because he is the only one who really knows that.
I may have misunderstood you gary, but the law of love does NOT say that one can hate WITH a cause.
Jesus said this:
Matt 5:43-47
Under Jesus' law of love---there is no justification to hate, period.
Or did I misunderstand your point?
MT 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Paul was angry and had reason to hand a certain man over to Satan for the destruction of his body because he took his mother in-law to bed but later the man repented and Paul forgave and asked the Saints that this man knew to forgive also. Godly anger/hate is not mindless but has objective/intent to let the person know where the bounties are concerning proper behavior.
Now I suppose one could argue semantics here and say angry is not hate. I say that is doting about words favoring one over another when the result is the same in this context. One must ask, Why would being angry without a cause subject a man to The Judgment if we were to interpret angry as being a word weaker than hate. Paul had this too say about doting over words when in fact one know what the other person means from the context of what they are saying. 1TIM 6:4 "doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil surmising's,"
So yes there are times to have a reason to hate/angry so that we should have nothing to do with them unless they repent. That does not mean that we take vengeance on them and hate in that manner and yes we should pray for them and if the opportunity arises, we should help in some way but Scripture says clearly to have nothing to do with those who do evil and to come out from among them the best we can. Or as Paul put it, yet not all together away from them as we would need to go out from the world.
But rather we should be careful as to who we should hang out with because we hate who they are by the things that they do but yet we pray for them and do good to them if the opportunity arises. That is what ambivalence means and we all have it. EPH 4:26 "Be angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:" Anger/hate/wrath whatever you want to call it, should be and must be limited.
The ambivalence [which does not mean contradictory] of God's nature is that He is angry with the sinner every day but His arm is outstretched still showing mercy that leads to salvation upon repentance and others no mercy because they have crossed the line. This and other Scripture say it well: IS 9:17 "Therefore the LORD shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaks folly. For all this His anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still."
ROM 1:18 "For the wrath/[anger] of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" This comes in many forms but His arm is outstretched still.
The ambivalence [which does not mean contradictory] of God's nature is that He is angry with the sinner every day but His arm is outstretched still showing mercy that leads to salvation upon repentance and others no mercy because they have crossed the line. This and other Scripture say it well: IS 9:17 "Therefore the LORD shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaks folly. For all this His anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still."
ROM 1:18 "For the wrath/[anger] of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" This comes in many forms but His arm is outstretched still.
MT 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Paul was angry and had reason to hand a certain man over to Satan for the destruction of his body because he took his mother in-law to bed but later the man repented and Paul forgave and asked the Saints that this man knew to forgive also. Godly anger/hate is not mindless but has objective/intent to let the person know where the bounties are concerning proper behavior.
Now I suppose one could argue semantics here and say angry is not hate. I say that is doting about words favoring one over another when the result is the same in this context. One must ask, Why would being angry without a cause subject a man to The Judgment if we were to interpret angry as being a word weaker than hate. Paul had this too say about doting over words when in fact one know what the other person means from the context of what they are saying. 1TIM 6:4 "doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil surmising's,"
So yes there are times to have a reason to hate/angry so that we should have nothing to do with them unless they repent. That does not mean that we take vengeance on them and hate in that manner and yes we should pray for them and if the opportunity arises, we should help in some way but Scripture says clearly to have nothing to do with those who do evil and to come out from among them the best we can. Or as Paul put it, yet not all together away from them as we would need to go out from the world.
But rather we should be careful as to who we should hang out with because we hate who they are by the things that they do but yet we pray for them and do good to them if the opportunity arises. That is what ambivalence means and we all have it. EPH 4:26 "Be angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:" Anger/hate/wrath whatever you want to call it, should be and must be limited.
The ambivalence [which does not mean contradictory] of God's nature is that He is angry with the sinner every day but His arm is outstretched still showing mercy that leads to salvation upon repentance and others no mercy because they have crossed the line. This and other Scripture say it well: IS 9:17 "Therefore the LORD shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaks folly. For all this His anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still."
ROM 1:18 "For the wrath/[anger] of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" This comes in many forms but His arm is outstretched still.
I didn't ask you about God's nature. I may even agree with some of it. But did Jesus command US to do what is reserved for God? Are you justifying our constant anger at others? I'm interested in your interpretation of Jesus statement that we are to love our enemies. Should we kill them in the name of Jesus? History is replete with many who did exactly that.
Did Jesus teach His disciples to turn the other cheek and pray for those who spitefully use them or not? Or is this another fundamentalist trick that justifies kicking the crap (physically or verbally) out of someone when it fits their own human desires?
Please note that there is huge difference in the way Jesus says to pray for our enemies---and for what purpose---and the purpose of praying for them according to Paul. Jesus says it is to show we are the children of God while Paul claims it is to heap burning coals on their heads.
Nonsense. Sin is a wrong state of mind, NOT a disease. God IS love, so any state of mind that is NOT love is incompatible and must be changed to love (repentance).
This whole notion of payment is preposterous. There was nothing to pay for, just something to correct and make up for. We were NOT love so we needed one of us to become love for us. Jesus became perfect agape love equal to God and all humans were forever connected to God and never to be separated again.
To those that do not believe, many things in the Bible won't make sense. I get it.
Wow, used up all my reps on you before this....but wow...
I may copy this and put on a wall !
I'm surprised at you MH....didn't know you followed the anti-Semitic line of BS against the Jews ("ignorant, savage, barbaric ancestors of the OT", don't you know? ).
I'm surprised at you MH....didn't know you followed the anti-Semitic line of BS against the Jews ("ignorant, savage, barbaric ancestors of the OT", don't you know? ).
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