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Old 03-15-2017, 05:47 AM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,052,927 times
Reputation: 348

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Why believe anything? Why not know?
Something is known Beyond a reasonable doubt if the laws of cause and effect make it impossible for it not to be true


I KNOW with certainty that a 2 headed coin will come up heads if flipped.

If the coin has a heads and a tails then I dont know what it will come up as but I KNOW the probability is 50/50.

If I have 3 coins in my pocket, one with 2 heads, another with 2 tails, and another with one head and one tail and I pull one out at random and, without looking at it, flip it then I dont know the true probability for that particular coin (which could be 0 or 50 or 100 percent) but I still KNOW the a priori bayesian probability for that particular coin is 50/50.

If I continue flipping that particular coin and observing the results then the Bayesian probability for that particular coin will gradually change and approach the true probability for that particular coin.

Put simply if I keep getting heads then I will start expecting to see heads. But even after a thousand heads there is still a very small chance that I just got lucky 1000 times.

But at no point is it ever necessary to believe anything. You can and should always know.
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:13 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,577,622 times
Reputation: 2070
I think it comes down to degree of certainty. I believe the coin will be either heads or tails when I toss it. If I record the tosses I think it will be around 50/50. I really don't have to justify 48/52 nor would I use it to say the coin toss is not 50/50 or point fingers at people that think if they do the tosses they will get 51/49.

be open, honest, and balanced. everything else works out. lmao, balanced ... 50-50
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,383,279 times
Reputation: 23666
I call believing, blind faith...whether it is sitting in a chair that I believe will not
crumble underneath me or not or if there is a God...Knowing is better, yes.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:15 PM
 
9,689 posts, read 10,018,190 times
Reputation: 1927
Always believed that the devil has the abilities to tumble the dice to get a winner , or the balls to find the winner of the lottery manipulated by the spirit of this world who is the devil , or in the chances of the zodiac and the such , ...Where as God does not play the lady luck , and luck is not considered faith in Christ ......... But still salvation in Christ will be a sure thing if people follow the rules of Jesus for salvation, as Jesus has literal ways which work , so pray in the wind as if God can see you , which He can
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:36 PM
 
19,029 posts, read 27,599,679 times
Reputation: 20271
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Always believed that the devil has the abilities to tumble the dice to get a winner , or the balls to find the winner of the lottery manipulated by the spirit of this world who is the devil , or in the chances of the zodiac and the such , ...Where as God does not play the lady luck , and luck is not considered faith in Christ ......... But still salvation in Christ will be a sure thing if people follow the rules of Jesus for salvation, as Jesus has literal ways which work , so pray in the wind as if God can see you , which He can
And he said onto his disciples - in your lives the kingdom of god will come.



That was what - over 2 000 years ago? Is that "the sure thing" "and "literal ways which work"? Or, is it still "will" that so generously puts salvation into the never coming bright unknown future?
How long does it take for blind to start seeing?
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
689 posts, read 549,587 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Why believe anything? Why not know?
Something is known Beyond a reasonable doubt if the laws of cause and effect make it impossible for it not to be true


I KNOW with certainty that a 2 headed coin will come up heads if flipped.

If the coin has a heads and a tails then I dont know what it will come up as but I KNOW the probability is 50/50.

If I have 3 coins in my pocket, one with 2 heads, another with 2 tails, and another with one head and one tail and I pull one out at random and, without looking at it, flip it then I dont know the true probability for that particular coin (which could be 0 or 50 or 100 percent) but I still KNOW the a priori bayesian probability for that particular coin is 50/50.

If I continue flipping that particular coin and observing the results then the Bayesian probability for that particular coin will gradually change and approach the true probability for that particular coin.

Put simply if I keep getting heads then I will start expecting to see heads. But even after a thousand heads there is still a very small chance that I just got lucky 1000 times.

But at no point is it ever necessary to believe anything. You can and should always know.
When you talk to humans in stone age, what possibility there for black holes as an existence. The mathematical answer is 1, as now we know for a fact that black holes existed even in stone age. However humans in stone age have no way to access this fact. To them, may be it's 50 and 50.

Similarly, God's existence is either 1 or 0, it's nothing in between. Mathematically for whatever already happened, the possibility of the outcome is either 1 or 0, there's nothing can be considered "50/50". We humans can't confirm whether it is a 1 or a 0 simply because the fact is beyond our reach. Humans don't have the ability and capability to reach this fact (just like humans in stone age won't be able to confirm the existence of black holes).

To take your coin as an example, I threw the coin then I took a look to confirm that the head is up. Now the possibility of the coin facing up is 1 (not 50/50) as it's a done deal (something already happened). It's still "50/50" to you (not me) simply because it's out of your ability and capability to know (as the coin is covered by my hands).
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
689 posts, read 549,587 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
When you talk to humans in stone age, what possibility there for black holes as an existence. The mathematical answer is 1, as now we know for a fact that black holes existed even in stone age. However humans in stone age have no way to access this fact. To them, may be it's 50 and 50.

Similarly, God's existence is either 1 or 0, it's nothing in between. Mathematically for whatever already happened, the possibility of the outcome is either 1 or 0, there's nothing can be considered "50/50". We humans can't confirm whether it is a 1 or a 0 simply because the fact is beyond our reach. Humans don't have the ability and capability to reach this fact (just like humans in stone age won't be able to confirm the existence of black holes).

To take your coin as an example, I threw the coin then I took a look to confirm that the head is up. Now the possibility of the coin facing up is 1 (not 50/50) as it's a done deal (something already happened). It's still "50/50" to you (not me) simply because it's out of your ability and capability to know (as the coin is covered by my hands).
That said. Now if I throw the coin far away before you can see if the head is up or down. Then, even I may lie, the only chance for you to get to the truth if coin was with its head up is to Believe me with your Faith. This is the only way, there's no other way round! Unless you have the ability and capability to go back to point to see it while it was still in my hands.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:14 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,192,123 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Why believe anything? Why not know?
Something is known Beyond a reasonable doubt if the laws of cause and effect make it impossible for it not to be true


I KNOW with certainty that a 2 headed coin will come up heads if flipped.
There are a few on this board that would argue that. That's just who they are.
Quote:
If the coin has a heads and a tails then I dont know what it will come up as but I KNOW the probability is 50/50.

If I have 3 coins in my pocket, one with 2 heads, another with 2 tails, and another with one head and one tail and I pull one out at random and, without looking at it, flip it then I dont know the true probability for that particular coin (which could be 0 or 50 or 100 percent) but I still KNOW the a priori bayesian probability for that particular coin is 50/50.

If I continue flipping that particular coin and observing the results then the Bayesian probability for that particular coin will gradually change and approach the true probability for that particular coin.

Put simply if I keep getting heads then I will start expecting to see heads. But even after a thousand heads there is still a very small chance that I just got lucky 1000 times.

But at no point is it ever necessary to believe anything. You can and should always know.
Including the stuff about the coins? So we should just ignore you?
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:22 AM
 
125 posts, read 87,112 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Why believe anything? Why not know?
Something is known Beyond a reasonable doubt if the laws of cause and effect make it impossible for it not to be true


I KNOW with certainty that a 2 headed coin will come up heads if flipped.
Could land on its edge. Seen it happen.
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:36 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,052,927 times
Reputation: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
When you talk to humans in stone age, what possibility there for black holes as an existence. The mathematical answer is 1, as now we know for a fact that black holes existed even in stone age. However humans in stone age have no way to access this fact. To them, may be it's 50 and 50.

Similarly, God's existence is either 1 or 0, it's nothing in between. Mathematically for whatever already happened, the possibility of the outcome is either 1 or 0, there's nothing can be considered "50/50". We humans can't confirm whether it is a 1 or a 0 simply because the fact is beyond our reach. Humans don't have the ability and capability to reach this fact (just like humans in stone age won't be able to confirm the existence of black holes).

To take your coin as an example, I threw the coin then I took a look to confirm that the head is up. Now the possibility of the coin facing up is 1 (not 50/50) as it's a done deal (something already happened). It's still "50/50" to you (not me) simply because it's out of your ability and capability to know (as the coin is covered by my hands).
Bayesian probability
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