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In church yesterday, they were saying in the week after the cross we should be following in Jesus examples.
So after the Messiah rose from the grave, he was still on the earth for 40 days, and many claim they are following Jesus teachings and examples, so let pose some examples.
In the 40 days after he rose:
Where in scriptures did Jesus abolish all the laws of God?
Where did Jesus say the Sabbath is now abolished in favor of Sunday?
Where did Jesus go around starting up Sunday churches?
Where did Jesus say Passover and Unleavened Bread will replaced with Communion/The Lords Supper?
Where did Jesus say to make sure you take up a collection on Sunday morning and make sure you call it a tithe?
Where did Jesus say a tithe is now money?
Where did Jesus say to remember his death with pagan fertility symbols?
Where did Jesus say to remember his birth with pagan customs and to celebrate it on the same days the pagans will celebrate their idols birthday?
Where did Jesus say is is now okay to eat unclean foods?
Where did Jesus say he is now a Christian and starting a new religion called Christianity?
No sure where you are going with this. Why not focus on what He did?
You really can't focus on what He didn't do. He didn't kill anybody. He didn't fly in an airplane. I am not sure how you make the point from things He never said.
In church yesterday, they were saying in the week after the cross we should be following in Jesus examples.
So after the Messiah rose from the grave, he was still on the earth for 40 days, and many claim they are following Jesus teachings and examples, so let pose some examples.
In the 40 days after he rose:
Where in scriptures did Jesus abolish all the laws of God?
Where did Jesus say the Sabbath is now abolished in favor of Sunday?
Where did Jesus go around starting up Sunday churches?
Where did Jesus say Passover and Unleavened Bread will replaced with Communion/The Lords Supper?
Where did Jesus say to make sure you take up a collection on Sunday morning and make sure you call it a tithe?
Where did Jesus say a tithe is now money?
Where did Jesus say to remember his death with pagan fertility symbols?
Where did Jesus say to remember his birth with pagan customs and to celebrate it on the same days the pagans will celebrate their idols birthday?
Where did Jesus say is is now okay to eat unclean foods?
Where did Jesus say he is now a Christian and starting a new religion called Christianity?
First of all, the Gospel accounts don't record everything that Jesus said to the apostles after He was resurrected which in itself invalidates your argument.
Secondly, the apostles were Jesus' representatives. Jesus stated He had more things to say to the apostles but that they could not bear it at that time. But after He left the Holy Spirit would guide the apostles into all the truth (John 16:12-15). Therefore, what the apostles teach in the New Testament documents bears the authority of Jesus.
Therefore, when Paul states that we are not under the law, that has the authority of Jesus (Rom. 6:14, 7:4,6; Gal. 3:19-26). Since we are not under the Mosaic law we don't have to observe the ordinances pertaining to ritual uncleanliness. That means that all foods are good to eat whether you recognize that fact or not. Paul wrote of this in 1 Corinthians 10:25-31. Jesus Himself stated that what a man eats cannot defile him (Mark 7:18-19).
As for Sunday worship, the church did that from the very beginning of the church-age. Jesus said that He would establish His church (Matthew 16:18). At the time He said it, the church didn't yet exist. It was still in the future. The church-age began on the day of Pentecost 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus. With the beginning of the church the apostles taught those things which pertain to the church. Those teachings became known as 'the Way', and eventually came to be called Christianity (Acts 9:1-2; 11:26).
We live in the dispensation of the church. The church is not under the bondage of the Mosaic law with its rituals and feasts and days. Some of you people will never understand this despite the clear teachings in the New Testament and will prefer to enslave yourself to a system of law that was designed for Israel but not for the church.
No sure where you are going with this. Why not focus on what He did?
You really can't focus on what He didn't do. He didn't kill anybody. He didn't fly in an airplane. I am not sure how you make the point from things He never said.
The purpose of this is, are we following in Jesus examples or not.. much of what I listed is what is a very active part of Christianity now, but nothing Jesus taught or passed on
First of all, the Gospel accounts don't record everything that Jesus said to the apostles after He was resurrected which in itself invalidates your argument.
Secondly, the apostles were Jesus' representatives. Jesus stated He had more things to say to the apostles but that they could not bear it at that time. But after He left the Holy Spirit would guide the apostles into all the truth (John 16:12-15). Therefore, what the apostles teach in the New Testament documents bears the authority of Jesus.
Therefore, when Paul states that we are not under the law, that has the authority of Jesus (Rom. 6:14, 7:4,6; Gal. 3:19-26). Since we are not under the Mosaic law we don't have to observe the ordinances pertaining to ritual uncleanliness. That means that all foods are good to eat whether you recognize that fact or not. Paul wrote of this in 1 Corinthians 10:25-31. Jesus Himself stated that what a man eats cannot defile him (Mark 7:18-19).
As for Sunday worship, the church did that from the very beginning of the church-age. Jesus said that He would establish His church (Matthew 16:18). At the time He said it, the church didn't yet exist. It was still in the future. The church-age began on the day of Pentecost 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus. With the beginning of the church the apostles taught those things which pertain to the church. Those teachings became known as 'the Way', and eventually came to be called Christianity (Acts 9:1-2; 11:26).
We live in the dispensation of the church. The church is not under the bondage of the Mosaic law with its rituals and feasts and days. Some of you people will never understand this despite the clear teachings in the New Testament and will prefer to enslave yourself to a system of law that was designed for Israel but not for the church.
We are not under the penalty of the law, which was death, if we accept Christ. All the laws in the NT are pulled from the Mosaic law, so if the are written on out hearts, they obviously still apply (the ones that actual apply to you and can be done)
There is no example in the entire bible where Gods people were eating unclean foods, so using Mark 7 out of context since they were talking about ceremonial hand washing doesnt equal abolishing the dietary laws God gave to his people.
When Jesus said he would establish his church, that is the body of believers in him, not the RCC that pretty much made its own rules and passed it down as Gospel. "Followers of the way" were gentiles to Judaism converts who followed the Torah back then, it wasnt until the 1st century in which Christianity and Judaism branched off and did its own thing.
So Gods commands are now bondage? He took them out of bondage in Egypt, only to place them under his own new special kind of bondage when they reached the land he made a path for them to reach? If they were not keeping the Feast of Pentecost, they would never have received the Holy Spirit.
So God gave commandments of Israel only, including the New Covenant that was enslavement, but Christians dont have to follow any commands and just do as they please? The bondage in the scripture was when the pharisees added hundreds of laws to try to preserve the commandments and made it a burden to keep, since they couldnt even keep it themselves, and that is what Jesus pointed out to them, not that his fathers commands were bondage. No one is saying to go back under the animal sacrificial system which was fulfilled and replaced with the blood of Christ
First of all, the Gospel accounts don't record everything that Jesus said to the apostles after He was resurrected which in itself invalidates your argument.
Secondly, the apostles were Jesus' representatives. Jesus stated He had more things to say to the apostles but that they could not bear it at that time. But after He left the Holy Spirit would guide the apostles into all the truth (John 16:12-15). Therefore, what the apostles teach in the New Testament documents bears the authority of Jesus.
Therefore, when Paul states that we are not under the law, that has the authority of Jesus (Rom. 6:14, 7:4,6; Gal. 3:19-26). Since we are not under the Mosaic law we don't have to observe the ordinances pertaining to ritual uncleanliness. That means that all foods are good to eat whether you recognize that fact or not. Paul wrote of this in 1 Corinthians 10:25-31. Jesus Himself stated that what a man eats cannot defile him (Mark 7:18-19).
As for Sunday worship, the church did that from the very beginning of the church-age. Jesus said that He would establish His church (Matthew 16:18). At the time He said it, the church didn't yet exist. It was still in the future. The church-age began on the day of Pentecost 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus. With the beginning of the church the apostles taught those things which pertain to the church. Those teachings became known as 'the Way', and eventually came to be called Christianity (Acts 9:1-2; 11:26).
We live in the dispensation of the church. The church is not under the bondage of the Mosaic law with its rituals and feasts and days. Some of you people will never understand this despite the clear teachings in the New Testament and will prefer to enslave yourself to a system of law that was designed for Israel but not for the church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
We are not under the penalty of the law, which was death, if we accept Christ. All the laws in the NT are pulled from the Mosaic law, so if the are written on out hearts, they obviously still apply (the ones that actual apply to you and can be done)
We are not under the Mosaic Law. We are not under the rituals and restrictions that the Mosaic Law imposed on Israel. The church-age believer, having been united to Jesus, having been made a part of the body of Christ has died to the law and been released from it. Paul is very clear on this. (Romans 7:4-6; Gal. 3:23-25)
Quote:
There is no example in the entire bible where Gods people were eating unclean foods, so using Mark 7 out of context since they were talking about ceremonial hand washing doesnt equal abolishing the dietary laws God gave to his people.
Mark 7:18-23 is pertinent to the issue of ritual uncleanness which includes the issue of 'unclean food.' In fact, the issue of clean and unclean food is addressed in Acts 10:9-16, 11:5-10; Romans 14:13-23; 1 Corinthians 8:1-13.
The matter of whether certain foods could be eaten or should be refrained from was an issue that came up in the Pauline mission churches. Paul made it clear that Christians are free to eat all foods, including meat which had been sacrificed to idols, because nothing is unclean. Paul's only caution was that those to whom he wrote should be careful with their liberty not to eat something in the presence of someone who doesn't know that it is okay to eat it.
No food is ceremonially unclean for a Christian. The issue dealing with ceremonial cleanliness involved Israel, not the church.
Quote:
When Jesus said he would establish his church, that is the body of believers in him, not the RCC that pretty much made its own rules and passed it down as Gospel. "Followers of the way" were gentiles to Judaism converts who followed the Torah back then, it wasnt until the 1st century in which Christianity and Judaism branched off and did its own thing.
Christianity did not exist until the first century. The church-age began on the day of Pentecost, 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus. The first Christians were not Gentiles who converted to Judaism. The first Christians were Jews who believed that Jesus was the Messiah.
Quote:
So Gods commands are now bondage? He took them out of bondage in Egypt, only to place them under his own new special kind of bondage when they reached the land he made a path for them to reach? If they were not keeping the Feast of Pentecost, they would never have received the Holy Spirit.
So God gave commandments of Israel only, including the New Covenant that was enslavement, but Christians dont have to follow any commands and just do as they please? The bondage in the scripture was when the pharisees added hundreds of laws to try to preserve the commandments and made it a burden to keep, since they couldnt even keep it themselves, and that is what Jesus pointed out to them, not that his fathers commands were bondage. No one is saying to go back under the animal sacrificial system which was fulfilled and replaced with the blood of Christ
Following God's commands is not bondage, and I never said that it was. But you are putting yourself in bondage by adhering to commands which were given to Israel but which never were intended for the church.
Paul was concerned about the Galatians who wanted to enslave themselves to the Jewish days, months and seasons, and years. Things which Paul called weak and worthless elemental things.
Gal. 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10] You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11] I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
If you want to fulfill the law, you don't do it by observing the feast days of Israel, by refraining from eating certain foods, etc. You do it by obeying the command to love God and to love your neighbor.
Gal. 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Christians don't have to observe the Saturday Sabbath or the other days, months and years that Israel observed, nor are any foods ceremonially unclean for the Christian.
The laws written on the heart of the believer in Christ are the ten commandment and the two commandments of Jesus plus the virtues of Christ and the fruits of the spirit , for we need to be prudent in the spirit , ......With the Sabbath Jesus said He is the Lord of the Sabbath , which means man have no right to condemn others for their Sabbath rules , as the Sabbath rule was made for men and women to take the time out of the busy life to worship God not the corporate law of Saturday only , or Sunday only ..................Like then the burnt offering of the Old testament is now blaspheme to Jesus so following the Old laws of the temple have changed , so if you eat meat sacrifices to God would be blaspheme ...............The Passover and the feat of unleavened bread are old covenant , like remember God for delivering , were Moses leaves Egypt , were Jesus come by the east gate from Ezekiel 46; 12 which is Easter and the remembrance of the last supper to the sacrifice of the cross and resurrection , see both Moses and Jesus were deliverers which one do you follow .....................remembering Jesus with pagan symbols Jesus said ``give God what is God`s and Cesar what is Cesar's``, so remember Jesus at Easter with His resurrection , not eggs and bunnies ,.................. Then if you what to eat pork with worms in it or shell fish and bottom feeders with unclean impurities than you should say grace before you eat so God could say ``don`t eat that ``................................. Then Jesus said`` go out and preach the gospel to all nation baptizing them to the name of Father son and Holy spirit`` , which is Christ , so you can call them Christians or the way make no diffrence
Jesus: "For 40 days I contemplated long and hard the state of humanity and I came to this conclusion. Since ye are all such an apathetic bunch of so and so's and can't handle even the most basic commands without rolling your eyes and complaining ...I decided to do it all for ye. No actual effort from any of ye is necessary."
"So, all ye slackers have to do is to mouth the words that 'ye love me', go sit in a church pew every Sunday (but NOT Saturday lest ye be seen as <gasp> actually obeying a commandment!), sing a few 'Jesus is my friend' songs, mumble a few tedious and repetitious prayers, and try to stay awake listening to the same regurgitated sermons every week and that's pretty much it!"
Jesus: "For 40 days I contemplated long and hard the state of humanity and I came to this conclusion. Since ye are all such an apathetic bunch of so and so's and can't handle even the most basic commands without rolling your eyes and complaining ...I decided to do it all for ye. No actual effort from any of ye is necessary."
"So, all ye slackers have to do is to mouth the words that 'ye love me', go sit in a church pew every Sunday (but NOT Saturday lest ye be seen as <gasp> actually obeying a commandment!), sing a few 'Jesus is my friend' songs, mumble a few tedious and repetitious prayers, and try to stay awake listening to the same regurgitated sermons every week and that's pretty much it!"
Pretty much sums it up now. Dont forget once saved always saved, regardless of how you act after you accept Christ.
We are not under the Mosaic Law. We are not under the rituals and restrictions that the Mosaic Law imposed on Israel. The church-age believer, having been united to Jesus, having been made a part of the body of Christ has died to the law and been released from it. Paul is very clear on this. (Romans 7:4-6; Gal. 3:23-25)
Mark 7:18-23 is pertinent to the issue of ritual uncleanness which includes the issue of 'unclean food.' In fact, the issue of clean and unclean food is addressed in Acts 10:9-16, 11:5-10; Romans 14:13-23; 1 Corinthians 8:1-13.
The matter of whether certain foods could be eaten or should be refrained from was an issue that came up in the Pauline mission churches. Paul made it clear that Christians are free to eat all foods, including meat which had been sacrificed to idols, because nothing is unclean. Paul's only caution was that those to whom he wrote should be careful with their liberty not to eat something in the presence of someone who doesn't know that it is okay to eat it.
No food is ceremonially unclean for a Christian. The issue dealing with ceremonial cleanliness involved Israel, not the church.
Christianity did not exist until the first century. The church-age began on the day of Pentecost, 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus. The first Christians were not Gentiles who converted to Judaism. The first Christians were Jews who believed that Jesus was the Messiah.
Following God's commands is not bondage, and I never said that it was. But you are putting yourself in bondage by adhering to commands which were given to Israel but which never were intended for the church.
Paul was concerned about the Galatians who wanted to enslave themselves to the Jewish days, months and seasons, and years. Things which Paul called weak and worthless elemental things.
Gal. 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10] You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11] I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
If you want to fulfill the law, you don't do it by observing the feast days of Israel, by refraining from eating certain foods, etc. You do it by obeying the command to love God and to love your neighbor.
Gal. 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Christians don't have to observe the Saturday Sabbath or the other days, months and years that Israel observed, nor are any foods ceremonially unclean for the Christian.
Not saying we are under the Mosaic law, im saying much of the commandments are still valid (Commands we can actually keep that doesn't require a temple or that can still be kept), but we are saying they are all abolished.
Mark 7 & Matthew 15 is about not washing your hands before you eat cant defile you and make you unclean, it is not saying to cancel out what God commanded. If Jesus was saying that, he would be teaching others to sin and is not the Messiah. Acts 10 in context is about not referring to the Gentiles unclean, not a cancellation of the dietary laws. Romans 14 is about fasting and choosing which day to fast and not judging the other person, not about where unclean food is now clean or not. 1 Cor 8 is about food sacrificed to idols, not whether or not it was now okay to eat unclean foods. Why would God tell his people in the OT not to eat certain foods as they are unclean and not meant to be food, then in the NT, tell Christians who are supposed to be his people, never mind, eat what you please whether its a roach,rat, or snake, everything I have commanded in the past is now null and void. Context is the key and you took all of those verses out of context to reach that conclusion.
In regards to:
"The first Christians were not Gentiles who converted to Judaism. ", Acts 15:21 says differently.
In regards to:
"Paul was concerned about the Galatians who wanted to enslave themselves to the Jewish days, months and seasons, and years. Things which Paul called weak and worthless elemental things."
Gal. 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10] You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11] I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Its the same situation in Galatians, where is is telling them (new believers..that were former Pagans) not to try go go back to the things they were doing when they were pagans. He is not telling them not to listen to the Jews. The main issues with the Jews back then was the meats sacririced to idols and the circumcision issue and there is no command stating one must be circumcised to be saved, other wise women would be screwed.
Galatians 4:9-11 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
Only a unbeliever/former Pagan would not have known God, so they cant turn back to something they never knew(the Torah), so its clear they are new converts as well, trying to turn back to the stuff they were doing as pagans that Paul is addressing and Paul IS NOT referring to believers trying to follow the Torah, because that is all they had back then, seeing the NT wasnt even written for another couple hundred years from that point.
Everything from the NT is a OT practice. There was no NT around when the letter to the Galatians was written, so everything Paul is talking about and preaching from is the OT.
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