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I have been miffed at the Pope since he said a couple of months back that I'm going to hell because I'm not a Catholic. I have removed him from my Christmas card list. When we meet in God's Kingdom I will lovingly remind him of his error (if he is there...).
I don't believe he has ever said that, can you provide a link to where he said that?
The bigger difference is that Protestant churches do not believe in the Real Presence in communion. They believe it is only symbolic. The Orthodox Churches maintain the Real Presence in communion. And that's really why it is restricted. Not just anyone can partake of it.
Actually I believe some do believe in real presence, but their definition may differ from transubstantiation that the RC Church teaches.
However, I've been around some really old-fashioned "cradle to grave" Catholics who are truly self-acclaimed "Catholic elite". I can usually spot them because they show up to Mass and confession like clockwork. The only problem is that while their body is there, their mind and spirit seem absent. This is evidenced by the fact that they stand there like Greek statues, barely mumbling the words, and never, ever singing, God forbid. Then as soon as they get their wafer, they promptly make an exit to the parking lot at which time they rev up their car engine and drive out like they're part of the Indy 500.
Thank God, that more and more Catholics are waking up and standing up to the "it's a very dangerous way of thinking" mantra. We'll think for ourselves, thank you. For me, the old adage, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". I prefer to go to Mass because I want to, because I want to fellowship with other people, and to feel God's spirit there. I could care less about "fulfilling an obligation". Why would it be an "obligation" to spend less than an hour getting spiritually filled with God's spirit? I've never understood that one. I guess if you convince people that they're going to hell unless their body (not mind or spirit) shows up to church, then it's a good job if you can get it type thing. .
Donna to me it seems you are judging others.
But it would not be the first time that I have heard a convert say that craddle Catholics are not Catholic enough for them.
Hell is a non issue for those who are saved from thier sins and who are Born Again in christ. Jesus said 'Dont die in your sins' and kept repeating it to many. He said there would be condemnation for those who did die in thier sins...so.... maybe its better to have ALL our sins forgiven in this life instead of leaving some for Purgatory (??)
David I am going to take a wild guess that you are not Catholic.
I don't think your concept of pugatory is the same as what Catholics believe.
Actually just the opposite is taking place.
The Church has been marching backwards in time since John Paul II became pope.
There is a new breed of Catholics that are hellbent in going back there, led by their John Paul II priests.
Now your Parish/Archdiocese in LA. may not be feeling this trend yet, but it's coming.
From the New York Times
"Young American men entering the priesthood today are far more conservative and tradition-bound than many of their elders and most American Roman Catholics, according to bishops, priests and church surveys."
"The shift back to orthodoxy is welcomed by many church leaders after decades of confusion and conflict. Others worry that if the trend continues, it could create a rift between a more rigid, conformist clergy, and the majority of American Catholics, who routinely ignore Rome's teachings on church attendance, sex, birth control and divorce."
"Their heroes are John Paul II and Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Cardinal Ratzinger is a contentious figure to many American Catholics, who view him as the guardian of strict orthodoxy and the leader of the Vatican's clampdown on dissent."
A couple of things:
(1) Do you still see the Catholic church, of which I am a member, as selling the "you are bad" scenario....I thought they were moving away from this....I mean, right now, churches are losing so many people that they can't be pushing this message
(2) How do you deal with the splintering of the Church by various orders? (As if the splintering between Christian sects wasn't already bad enough). Some orders push the Rosary and others do not. I once had a penance/atonement changed on me by a priest from another order because he disagreed with the previous priest's penance (which I brought up because I still hadn't done it because there were some logistics issues...not a big deal, really). There is this canyon between the liberal and the conservative, even within our own Church.
Catholics, or those familiar with Catholicism that aren't here to bash it, please chime in.
1. Great questions, a Jesuit priest once said I only know two things "One, there is a God and two, I am not him". Although this a DIEST approach, Jefferson, Einstein, Franklin were DEISTs however Deism eventually died out. In short, humans are weak and need positive peer pressure. That positive peer pressure can only come from an organiziation you feel comfortable in. Thus being said, not all Churches are made equal, I may be a better Catholic but you may be a better Baptist. I do not have a doubt about that, however we do understand there are different Baptist sects, while there is one Catholic Church.
2. The Catholic Church probably loses millions of sheeps a year but so does it gain about a million new sheeps in Africa alone. This is not unique, what is unique is the "ecumenical council", it is probably the greatest inspiration of Catholicism being "Universal" where Catholics can attend Orthodox Churches, Assyrian Church of the East, Polish National Church, the Church of England, some Lutheran and some Methodist Churches and take communion, thus by minor differences it is like a United Nation of Churches. Although the Catholic Church has it's imperfections so does the Perfect being of Christ has wounds, put there by the sins of mankind, but for every generation we had the gift of saints to look upon and in our lifetime one of the greatest unifiers that of Pope John Paul II. God bless.
David I am going to take a wild guess that you are not Catholic.
I don't think your concept of pugatory is the same as what Catholics believe.
Purgatory is a very interesting term in Catholicism, it comes from 2 Maccabees one of the greatest general in Jewish history, his book is not found in King James but only that of the Catholic Bible. It is said to be Martin Luther's most despised books which is why he did not include it in his Bible ... in it the General asks his soldiers to pray for the dead so that their sins may be purged and the dead may rise. Certainly if one wanted to start his/her own Church they deem what to include and what not to include, all a matter of perspective, but we do know that Hannukah is a prominent tradition in Jewish history of rededication of the Jewish temple in 164BCE under Judas Maccabeus and 1 and 2 Maccbees were written in Hebrew around the time of the Maccabees revolt.
2 Maccabees 12: 43-44 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
44
for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death
.Also inscriptions have been found on the ancient catacombs requesting prayer for the dead. So it seems to have been a practice that was widely accepted in the early church.
1. Great questions, a Jesuit priest once said I only know two things "One, there is a God and two, I am not him". Although this a DIEST approach, Jefferson, Einstein, Franklin were DEISTs however Deism eventually died out. In short, humans are weak and need positive peer pressure. That positive peer pressure can only come from an organiziation you feel comfortable in. Thus being said, not all Churches are made equal, I may be a better Catholic but you may be a better Baptist. I do not have a doubt about that, however we do understand there are different Baptist sects, while there is one Catholic Church.
2. The Catholic Church probably loses millions of sheeps a year but so does it gain about a million new sheeps in Africa alone. This is not unique, what is unique is the "ecumenical council", it is probably the greatest inspiration of Catholicism being "Universal" where Catholics can attend Orthodox Churches, Assyrian Church of the East, Polish National Church, the Church of England, some Lutheran and some Methodist Churches and take communion, thus by minor differences it is like a United Nation of Churches. Although the Catholic Church has it's imperfections so does the Perfect being of Christ has wounds, put there by the sins of mankind, but for every generation we had the gift of saints to look upon and in our lifetime one of the greatest unifiers that of Pope John Paul II. God bless.
"one of the greatest unifiers that of Pope John Paul II"
You think? I don't
"and take communion" hmmm that doesn't sound right. I would have to question that one. Do you have any kind of source or link you could refer me to?
First, this is NOT the place for those who want to bash Catholics. I only want discourse based on something I experienced while at Mass/Church.
I went to Mass at a parish I rarely go to. While waiting in the entry area, they had some leaflets I was looking at. One was entitled "Hell Exists and You Might Just Go There." I picked it up and read through it, quickly. Essentially, it talked about hell being a reality and it also added that praying the Rosary, including certain indispensible intermediate specific words of prayer, was essential to salvation. It was put out by one particular religious order. It made me fairly mad because it harkened back to the Catholic grammar school message of "you are basically bad kids" that is no longer "in vogue."
A couple of things:
(1) Do you still see the Catholic church, of which I am a member, as selling the "you are bad" scenario....I thought they were moving away from this....I mean, right now, churches are losing so many people that they can't be pushing this message
(2) How do you deal with the splintering of the Church by various orders? (As if the splintering between Christian sects wasn't already bad enough). Some orders push the Rosary and others do not. I once had a penance/atonement changed on me by a priest from another order because he disagreed with the previous priest's penance (which I brought up because I still hadn't done it because there were some logistics issues...not a big deal, really). There is this canyon between the liberal and the conservative, even within our own Church.
Catholics, or those familiar with Catholicism that aren't here to bash it, please chime in.
Robert it would help if you mention the name of the order that left those leaflets. It would seem that certain neo-conservative orders have gained a strong foothold in the Church during the long reign of John Paul II along with some very conservative reactionary bishops and cardinals. I believe he appointed around 99% of them. So the fix is in for the type of leadership we will have in decades to come.( there is a reason why they say it's not good that a pope lives to long) Legionaries of Christ and Opus Dei are two of the more conservative orders that had found favor under John Paul II.
This has all led to a polarized Church that is split up mainly into two groups. For a lack of a better term we may call it the "Vat II "and the "John Paul II" generation.
Most of the newly ordained priest are John Paul priest, they seem to be very conservative and orthodox. They seem to enjoy their new found power.
These are the reasons many have left the Church and others question if there is still a place in the Church for them.
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I have removed him from my Christmas card list. 
When we meet in God's Kingdom I will lovingly remind him of his error (if he is there...).
