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Old 05-13-2008, 12:57 PM
 
62 posts, read 186,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Junos: Are we not made by God something totally new and irreversible at salvation? His mighty works that make of us a new creation cannot be undone by our "backsliding." If someone is able to "fall away" and be lost again, he was never saved in the first place.

That which is born again from above from God's mighty grace and power and which actually makes of us something new, is totally irreversible. Unrepentant sin may separate us from God's fellowship, but it will never reverse the transformational and constitutional changes He has wrought in us. The butterfly cannot revert to a caterpillar, we cannot return to our mother's womb and be born again, and we cannot revert to the old man "dead in our trespasses and sins."

In Christ, Preterist
This is exacltly what I think. If you say your saved and then walk away from Christ, you never were really saved to begin with. The term I should of used then would of been a false convert. After reading the following book, it's says something different. Not sure I agree with it. It's just not sitting well with me.

This is from the "Evangelical Dictonary of Theology"

The term "Backsliding" is - is a temporary lapse into unbelief and sin following a spiritual conversion. The four relevant Hebrew words in the OT are variously translated “backsliding” (Jer. 8:5), “apostasy” (Jer. 5:6), “turning away” (Hos. 11:7), and “faithlessness” (Hos. 14:4). Backsliding in the OT primarily concerns Israel’s forsaking of its covenant relation with God. Although backsliding is not found in the NT, there are numerous examples of believers who draw away from fellowship with the Lord. The disciples (Matt. 26:56), Peter (Matt. 26:69-75), Demas (2 Timothy 4:10), Corinthian Christians (2 Cor. 12:20-21), and churches in Asia (Rev. 2:4, 14-25, 20).

The reason that some who are genuinely converted fall back into a life of sin is that the believer yet possesses the old nature that is “corrupt thorough deceitful lusts” (Esp. 4:22;, Rom. 7:13-24, 1 Cor. 3:1-3). Specific causes of spiritual backsliding include God-forgetfulness (Ezek. 23:35), unbelief (Heb. 3:12), bitterness (Heb.12:15) preoccupation with the present world (2 Tim. 4:10), love of money (1 Tim. 6:10), and seductive philosophies (Col. 2:8). Backsliding displeases the Lord (Heb. 10:38), grieves the Holy Spirit (Esp. 4:30), incurs divine punishment (Lev. 26:18-25), including sorrow of heart (Lev. 26:16).

Although backsliding brings untold hurt, most Christians believe that the backslidden believer is not eternally lost. The believer’s union with Christ sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14), god’s work of preservation (2 Tim. 1:12), Christ’s effectual intercession (Heb. 7:25), and the fact that the life Christ gives is eternal (John 3:16, 10:28) guarantee the final salvation of every blood-bought child of God.

According to Scripture, backsliding can be prevented by abiding in Christ (John 15:4-7), spiritual alertness (Eph. 6:18), constant prayer (1 Thess. 5:17), and the maintenance of a good conscience (1 Tim. 1:19). The promises of god to the backslider are exceedingly gracious: “Return to me, and I will return to you” (Mal. 3:7); “I will heal their faithlessness; I will love them fully” (Hos. 14:4)
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Old 11-14-2009, 06:37 AM
 
6 posts, read 7,114 times
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"If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all."

It is the power of belief that establish you to have an eternal life; but the opposite
power of disbelief will stop it. You sin NOT because you don't know it is bad, but you
do so because you believe the Devil instead of God.

So, how could you be saved?

Suppose you are born in America; but you dishonor the country you are entitled to live
with lots of unrighteous acts. Do you think you can never be taken away from America?
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:10 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,880 posts, read 26,096,491 times
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You can not lose your salvation. In 1 Samuel chapters 9 and 10, God installs Saul as the first king over Israel. Saul was a believer, but he rebelled against and rejected the word of the Lord over and over. Finally God rejected Saul as king over Israel in 1 Sam.15 and would no longer give Saul guidence. Because of the war with the Philistines, and in need of advice, Saul consults with a medium (Chapter 28),to bring up the prophet Samuel who had died (Chapter 25), in order to seek advice from him.

In Israel, under the Law of Moses, having anything to do with witchcraft, divination, anything of that nature, was punishable by death. Now, here is Saul, consulting with the witch of Endor, to have her contact the dead prophet Samuel. The witch of course knew she couldn't really bring up the dead, but she was in the business of making people think that she could. She had the assistance of an engastrimuthos demon, ( a demon who imitates the voices of people who have died.) She began her usual seance, expecting that the demon would pretend to be Samuel. But God in His sense of humor took control of the situation and actually caused the dead prophet Samuel to appear to her. This is the only recorded time that God allowed communication between the living and the departed. This naturally terrified the witch and she screamed out. Appearing before her, though not visible to Saul, was a vision of Samuel, who had been brought up from Paradise, or Abrahams Bosom, which was the compartment of Hades or Sheol, where O.T. believers went after death.

Saul, thinking this was all perfectly normal, allayed her fears, because she had recognized finally that it was Saul standing before her, who had asked her to contact Samuel, and she was afraid of being put to death. Now reassured by Saul that there would be no consequences to her, she began to describe to Saul what was occurring.

1 Sam. 28:14 ''What is his form?'' And she said, ''An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe.'' And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage.''

V:15) Then Samuel said to Saul, ''Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?'' And Saul answered, ''I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are wagiing war against me, and God has departed from me and answers me no more, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do.'' And Samuel said, ''Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has departed from you and has become your adversary?''

Samuel was indignant. During the prophets lifetime, Saul had continually rejected the word of God. Now, under adverse circumstances, Saul was seeking advice from the very authority he had rejected.

Believers who have crossed the golden bridge of dying grace and have arrived at their eternal destination do not want to return to this earth.

Saul had through his continual rejection of the word of the Lord, become an adversary of God. He was still a believer, and had not lost his salvation, but he was now under maximum divine discipline from the Lord. Now, by contacting demonic forces for advice, he had passed the point of no return.

The only thing that Samuel could tell Saul was that he was about to die.

1 Sam28:18-19 ''As you did not obey the Lord and did not execute His fierce wrath on Amalek, so the Lord has done this thing to you this day. Moreover the Lord will also give over Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines, therefore tomorrow you and your sons will be with me (a statement of Saul's eternal salvation)...''

Samuel had just told Saul that the next day, he was going to die and be with him in Abrahams Bosom-Paradise.You cannot lose your salvation.


And this was in Old Testament times.

In the dispensation of the church, the believer in Christ has far more divine assets given to him than any Old Testament believer ever had.

For example, the body of the church age believer is indwelled by all three members of the Godhead. John 14:22; Rom. 8:11; Col. 1:27

The Church-Age believer is placed into union with Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:26,27; Eph. 4:5

The sealing ministry of God the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of eternal salvation.(Eph. 1:13-14) We are sealed unto the day of redemption. It is His guarantee of eternal security for the believer. At the moment of faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit seals that decision and guarantees that nothing could ever reverse it.

There are many other divine assets available to the church age believer, all of which guarantees that the believer can never lose his salvation.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,619,864 times
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wrong.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:57 AM
 
45,232 posts, read 26,737,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
wrong.
What's wrong - the last few sentences that Mike posted are on target according to the Scriptures for the NT believer.
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Old 11-14-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,619,864 times
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[quote][quote=DRob4JC;11623663]What's wrong - the last few sentences that Mike posted are on target according to the Scriptures for the NT believer.[/quote]..

..actually, I didn't even read Mike's post,...I was answering the OP..."Once Saved always Saved- right or wrong...and I answered, "WRONG."...but now that I have just read, "...the last few sentences that Mike posted...", my answer to that is also a resounding..."WRONG!" as well. God says differently...I go with God, every time.
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:31 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,895,393 times
Reputation: 120
[quote=Verna Perry;11623733][quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
What's wrong - the last few sentences that Mike posted are on target according to the Scriptures for the NT believer.[/quote]..

..actually, I didn't even read Mike's post,...I was answering the OP..."Once Saved always Saved- right or wrong...and I answered, "WRONG."...but now that I have just read, "...the last few sentences that Mike posted...", my answer to that is also a resounding..."WRONG!" as well. God says differently...I go with God, every time.

RIGHT
!


HK
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,619,864 times
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[quote=Harold Kupp;11624615][quote=Verna Perry;11623733]
Quote:


RIGHT!


HK
Right!...
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:17 PM
 
303 posts, read 567,381 times
Reputation: 58
NORTH CAROLINA SAID:There is no work than I can do to secure my salvation,

Actually it has nothing to do with working to keep it.
Salvation is based on a continual relationship of love
Can anyone walk away from a relationship ???
God wont because he is faithful but if we do its over...
It ultimately has to do with loving and staying in love
Love is not based on working but abiding in that love

To me salvation is just like marriage
Why is the church called the bride and Jesus the groom ??
Because we are married to Christ and marriages stay together because individuals abide in love and yes that takes work but the abiding is in and of itself the main factor that keeps the relationship alive
Love is an act of the will
If a plant isnt watered it dies and so do relationships with God or anyone else
To fall out of love and back into the world is what destroys the relationship/salvation

MY 2 CENTS
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:17 PM
 
63,361 posts, read 39,631,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
RIGHT!


HK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Right!...
It is good to see you both come around to the truth of the OP!
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