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Old 07-09-2017, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,912,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
What do you think repentance is?...All this should raise a red flag for you...
It has been explained as a change of mind; it is far more than that, it is a change of direction, a change of intent. It is forming a new basis for living.
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:38 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,221 posts, read 26,412,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I would still love to see where in the Tanakh it states that the Mashiach would die and resurrect...Where's that prophecy?...
Isaiah 53. The servant of the Lord (the Messiah) is killed [53:8] and yet is later shown to be alive [53:10,12].
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:41 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
How many times do you need this explained? What IS "new" about it is that it is the "New" basis of the "new" covenant Jesus gave us for relating to God and man.
This makes no logical sense...Plus, the New Covenant is only for the houses of Judah and Israel, no Gentiles mentioned...This new covenant of yours does not exist in the Tanakh, so where did it come from...
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:43 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
It has been explained as a change of mind; it is far more than that, it is a change of direction, a change of intent. It is forming a new basis for living.
How many times does Christianity allow one to repent for the same sin?...
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:46 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Isaiah 53. The servant of the Lord (the Messiah) is killed [53:8] and yet is later shown to be alive [53:10,12].
That is a loooong stretch...And where does it prophecy that he will go away and come back to finish the rest of the prophecies?...


BTW, Isaiah 53 is a Gentile talking, not a Jew...
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:50 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,221 posts, read 26,412,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
That is a loooong stretch...And where does it prophecy that he will go away and come back to finish the rest of the prophecies?...


BTW, Isaiah 53 is a Gentile talking, not a Jew...
No it isn't to both comments.
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,912,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
This makes no logical sense...Plus, the New Covenant is only for the houses of Judah and Israel, no Gentiles mentioned...This new covenant of yours does not exist in the Tanakh, so where did it come from...
It makes sense to anyone who is not vested in preserving an old covenant.


We have covered the reference to Jeremiah also: it does not matter whether the covenant Jesus said He was establishing is one prophesied or not, it IS a new basis for relating to God and man in that concern for the well being of others. It is a principle and a Spirit, not a set of rules.


Christianity allows repenting for the same sin as many times as we recognize that we have failed in our resolve and determine to live a better way.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:01 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
It makes sense to anyone who is not vested in preserving an old covenant.


We have covered the reference to Jeremiah also: it does not matter whether the covenant Jesus said He was establishing is one prophesied or not, it IS a new basis for relating to God and man in that concern for the well being of others. It is a principle and a Spirit, not a set of rules.


Christianity allows repenting for the same sin as many times as we recognize that we have failed in our resolve and determine to live a better way.
Then that is lawlessness...So, you take the New Covenant, meant for Judah and Israel, and co-opt it for yourself...If something is not prophesied then how do you know that it is true?...
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,912,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Then that is lawlessness...So, you take the New Covenant, meant for Judah and Israel, and co-opt it for yourself...If something is not prophesied then how do you know that it is true?...
"Lawlessness" as you well know implies committing acts against society and you are dishonest in your presentation as you well know. You refuse to acknowledge that acting by a principle that promotes the welfare of that society is a much better basis than laws which can only enforce obedience where the subject can't find a way to get around them, but you KNOW this is true. It is far better to be without those laws than it is to be so unprincipled as to misrepresent my position.

What do I have to say? I do NOT base my acknowledgement of Jesus' "New Covenant" on ANY prophesy, but upon the very nature of that covenant which is far superior to law.

I know that it is true by its nature and the results of those committed to it as seen in "the fruit of the spirit."

Why would I require any spurious authority from writings of men?
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,344,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Isaiah 53. The servant of the Lord (the Messiah) is killed [53:8] and yet is later shown to be alive [53:10,12].
God prevails in the restoration of all things.
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