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Old 09-04-2017, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,818,641 times
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"The Law is the judge. Those who do not live by the Law will die by the Law. Romans 2:12"

This is the exact opposite of what Romans 2:12 says
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,647,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
Nothing in the Bible stands alone. Those who wish to bend its words for their own purpose make it fit their agenda of sin.

Jesus said that He didn't judge anyone (John 8:15). The implication is that judgment is the function of the Law. The Law is judge, not Jesus.

Jesus also said that He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. - Matt 5:17 One who fulfills the Law does not change it, abolish it or alter the judgments it states.

Jesus was addressing Jews when He stated He did not judge. Every Jew who heard His words fully understood what He meant because they understood the Law.

Gentiles are ignorant of the Law. Because they do not know the law they tend to believe and act according to what they think is best for themselves - not what God has declared. Presuming to be their own God they make their own changeable rules and are trapped in their own folly and sin not knowing they are judged by the Law anyway.

The Law is the judge. Those who do not live by the Law will die by the Law. Romans 2:12

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

This is true for those who have been justified by the blood of Christ and for those who are not. Grace is given to those who accept Christ and are saved. Grace is given so that the disciple of Christ my live according to the Law - not as though they were lawless.

The Law is the judge, not Christ.

Read the Bible. Read the Torah and the Tanakh (the Old Testament). Read the gospels and the epistles (New Testament).
It says so. All of it. Not bits and pieces.

If you wish to learn the deep things of God, begin by learning the Law. It will be a good beginning.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law because He knew the fundamentalist Pharisees were looking to kill Him. No quicker way to do that than say "I am come to destroy the Law."

Yet six times in the following verses He absolutely destroyed the WRITTEN Law with His "But I say unto you" statements. Every single one of them contradicted long understood points of the Law. And there is no possible defense using Scripture alone. Instead fundamentalists invent fictional stories to "explain" away what Jesus said in order to maintain a genocidal god that is more suited to what lies in their hearts.

Scripture provides no wisdom unless one brings wisdom to it. Mark 12:30 says to love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your MIND, and all your strength.

Fundamentalists, however, constantly eschew the part about the mind as they are set on never developing it in a scholarly biblical manner. Proving beyond doubt that, like those Pharisees, once it is on paper, their minds are useless.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:31 PM
 
9,588 posts, read 4,983,305 times
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Yes, but WHICH mind, seeing how we are told the carnal mind is enmity (His enemy) AGAINST G-d? And of course, the mind of Christ always agrees with the written because they are one and the same. Peace
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:36 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,051,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Yes, but WHICH mind, seeing how we are told the carnal mind is enmity (His enemy) AGAINST G-d? And of course, the mind of Christ always agrees with the written because they are one and the same. Peace
There is only one mind, that one mind can be spiritual or carnal dependening upon our state of being. We are transformed when that one mind is renewed and renewed until it then naturally thinks from a spirtual state rather than a carnal one.

TO BE, 2 small words that speak volumes.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,647,255 times
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Quote:
This is the way of unquestioning obedience. Its priority is on upholding a text, at the expense of harming people, and at the expense of love. Jesus openly questions this approach to Scripture, and instead upholds that the goal of Scripture is to lead us to love. This focus leads him to faithfully question hurtful interpretations of Scripture. Such questioning is not only an acceptable part of a healthy faith; it is absolutely essential to it.
------
The Old Testament is a record of dispute. This dispute can be characterized as consisting of an ongoing debate between two key narratives: On the one side is the majority narrative of unquestioning obedience, and on the other is the protesting minority voice of faithful questioning.
Derek Flood, Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did.

Last edited by Wardendresden; 09-05-2017 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,881 posts, read 29,685,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
You judge according to the flesh: I judge not any man. - Jesus

Sure, I took it out of context...but it stands alone in MY book.
What do the fear-based Bible thumpers say to this?
Most of them don't think it applies to them, just to everybody else.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,647,255 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Consider for example the story of Elijah calling down fire from heaven as proof that he was on God's side. Elijah declares, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men (2 Kings 1: 10).

Hoping to follow Elijah’s example, James and John ask Jesus in response to opposition they were experiencing, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?” (Luke 9: 54–55). Perhaps that was why they got their nickname “the sons of thunder.”

Luke tells us that the response of Jesus was not to affirm this narrative, but to sternly rebuke his disciples. In that rebuke of Jesus is an implicit yet clear rejection of the way of Elijah as well. Later manuscripts include the response of Jesus, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of, for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them” (Luke 9: 55–56). 22 In other words, Jesus is essentially saying that the way of Elijah is not of God, but instead belongs to the spirit of the one who seeks to destroy, that is, of the devil.

While Elijah claimed that his actions proved he was a “man of God,” this passage in Luke’s Gospel makes the opposite claim: The true “man of God” incarnate had not come to obliterate life, but to save, heal, and restore it (Luke 19: 10 & John 3: 17).

Jesus not only recognizes this himself as the Son of God, but rebukes James and John for not having come to this conclusion on their own. In other words, Jesus expects his disciples—expects you and me—to be making these same calls of knowing what to embrace in the Bible and what to reject.
Derek Flood, Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:58 PM
 
8,669 posts, read 4,755,203 times
Reputation: 408
“If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:19 AM
 
107 posts, read 73,546 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law because He knew the fundamentalist Pharisees were looking to kill Him. No quicker way to do that than say "I am come to destroy the Law."

Yet six times in the following verses He absolutely destroyed the WRITTEN Law with His "But I say unto you" statements. Every single one of them contradicted long understood points of the Law. And there is no possible defense using Scripture alone. Instead fundamentalists invent fictional stories to "explain" away what Jesus said in order to maintain a genocidal god that is more suited to what lies in their hearts.

Scripture provides no wisdom unless one brings wisdom to it. Mark 12:30 says to love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your MIND, and all your strength.

Fundamentalists, however, constantly eschew the part about the mind as they are set on never developing it in a scholarly biblical manner. Proving beyond doubt that, like those Pharisees, once it is on paper, their minds are useless.
The only visible way to show that you love god, is to follow is commandments. You can’t say I love god and practice homosexuality, if you are homosexual and stop doing homosexual activities then you can prove that you love god, and the same can be said about liars, adulteress, fornicators, sabbath breakers, idol worshipers etc. at gods eyes they all fall short. And the worst of all, people who twist the scriptures, and teach people to do immoral things.
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