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Originally Posted by hd4me
There are people who strike one as true Bible haters as in people who just love to hate because they have nothing upbuilding to offer as an alternative and others who are more sincere about questioning the Bible. I'd like to think of the OP as being in the latter category.
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No one here is a bible hater. We just see the bible more as a road map that lead to Christ and not as the infallible, inerrant word of God.
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Some question whether the Bible we have today is substantially similar to the earliest copies due to attempts to alter scriptures to support a doctrine. An example is 1 John 5:7. In the KJV it appears to support the Trinity. However, most scholars agree today that the scripture, as it appears in the KJV, was altered since ancient manuscripts in the Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopic, Arabic, Slavonic languages do not render that passage as it appears in the KJV. Thus the translation committees for various other Bible translations have rendered that passage as it appears in the ancient texts.
Another example of man's edits is deleting the name of God although it appears nearly 7,000 times in the earliest copies of the Bible. The result? Most people including many Christians don't recognize the name of God. Some even mock the name, Jehovah, that has been a transliterated rendering of YHWH to English for centuries. However, editorial teams have made corrections as in the Divine Name King James Bible.
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So are you saying for the last 4 thousand years we did not have the infallible, inerrant word of God but we do today?
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The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls was remarkable. A remarkable find in that Bible scholars could finally compare what appeared in the Hebrew Masoretic texts to what had been written more than 1000 years earlier. The result? It was found that the Jewish copyists have been extremely faithful and careful. It's important to remember that the early copyists had a way different mindset than people today. They genuinely believed that they had in their hands God's Word and not just some book of fiction...think about it...try to put yourself back then in that frame of mind and you too would be very careful about what you were copying.
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This is clearly wrong.
Here are a couple of examples from the dead sea scrolls.
Psalm 145 is an acrostic poem. That means that each line of the Psalm starts with a successive letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Yet in the Karaites/Masoretic Text this does not happen, one verse (or line) is completely missing.
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That verse which has been deleted reads
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"God is faithful in all of his words, and pious in all of his deeds; blessed is the Lord and blessed is his name, forever, and ever."
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Now because the Karaites/Masoretic Text has deleted this scripture all translations made on the Karaites/Masoretic Text do not have this scripture either, which includes the KJV of the bible.
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So how can those bible translated from the Karaites/Masoretic Text be the undefiled Word of God if one whole verse is missing from it?
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But how do we know that this verse
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"God is faithful in all of his words, and pious in all of his deeds; blessed is the Lord and blessed is his name, forever, and ever."
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Has really been deleted from the scriptures of the Karaites/Masoretic Text?
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We know because of the discovery of the dead sea scrolls which has this verse
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"God is faithful in all of his words, and pious in all of his deeds; blessed is the Lord and blessed is his name, forever, and ever."
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In it. Thus making complete the acrostic poem.
Here is another example
I have read 16 different translations of Deuteronomy 8:6 which reads
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"And you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, by walking in his ways and by fearing him."
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And every one of them (the 16 translations) is in ERROR.
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According to the dead sea scrolls Deuteronomy 8:6 should read
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"And you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, by walking in his ways and by loving him"
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To quote another
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These variants refer to two powerful but different emotions—fear and love. The variants also set forth a difference in how one understands Old Testament doctrines; in particular, the variants introduce the question of whether one should keep the commandments through fear or through love. The reading of love also provides us with an important view of the God of the Old Testament, who is sometimes portrayed as a strict Deity when compared with Jesus Christ and his teachings of love in the New Testament.
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Can any still believe the bibles today are the undefiled WORD OF GOD?
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The Chester Beatty Library in Dublin, Ireland contains a collection of papyri representing nearly every book of the New Testament or Greek Scriptures with the oldest copies from a time of about 100 years since the Bible was completed. Note what the Anchor Bible Dictionary says, "Although the Papyri supply a wealth of new information on textual detail, they also demonstrate remarkable stability in the transmission history of the biblical text.â€
Rather than there being a corruption of the Bible through the ages the age and amount of manuscripts that exist have helped scholars determine that what we have is substantially sound and accurately transmitted even to the extent that errant scriptures such as the above can be identified as errant.
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That is all fine and dandy, but just what were they copying? Was it just scripture or was it their interpretation of the scriptures?
According to the Jews themselves what they wrote was their interpretation of scripture.
According to the Jewish study Bible pages*1835*& 1838
The Jews interpreted scripture by using scripture, thus they turned the scripture over and over to find new truths from examining the scriptures and reordering the old scriptures. Thus when they came upon problem scriptures
they would translate those scripture according to thier own interpretation and took sides in theological and legal contraversies, expaned the narritive and legal material all the while purporting to merely convey the meaning of the text they translated.
Thus in ancient times it was the responsiblity of the translator not to only translate the text, but to render it comprehensible to those who could not read the sacred writting themselves.
Thus many of their interpretation of the scripture became a part of the scriptures
Thus we can see clearly that man has tampered with the scriptures.
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A good reminder of the importance for Christians to have faith that I came across recently and have overlooked somehow in previous Bible reading (showing why its important to read the Bible from start to finish even if one has already done so because you pick up on things that were previously missed) Luke 18:1-8. We know that in the latter part of the days there will be skeptics with their ridicule or "facts" or "reasoned skepticism" so much so that our faith may be shaken and Jesus foresaw this...in Luke 1:8, "Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?â€
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Faith in what though? the bible or Jesus Christ. I will put my trust in Jesus thanks.
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Did I spell her name right? rhetorical...
