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Simon Peter replied, "Lord, why do we need you, We have scriptures and they are the words of eternal life. John 6:68
Camps just exposing those that contradict.
Show me instead where He ever said to throw those scriptures away. You can't and you know it. What He wanted was for them to look at the motive of the heart behind them (Spirit breathed revelation) NOT throw them away as trash. Peace
And yet AGAIN you misrepresent what Mystic says, What part of suffering the consequences of our actions are you thinking is "fluffy?"
The ONLY difference between what you are saying and what Mystic is saying is that you believe that opportunity for change stops at physical death and what remains is punishment with NO opportunity to change. This is not JUSTICE, it is vengeance and a characteristice of unenlightened (unloving) thought.
No, that is NOT the only difference, we must be born again, WHILE WE'RE ALIVE, not after we're dead and buried, as Mystic purports.
No, it's a characteristic of not throwing away the scriptures that teach men so, AND my own personal experience in being shown exactly what happens at the death of the body. As for it being unloving, it's not loving to leave someone in bondage, either before or after, death. Peace
I originally posted this on another thread in reply to someone who claimed that ''only Jesus is the Word of God.'' But I had the feeling that person was just going to ignore it, so I deleted the post and started this thread for the benefit of those who can be objective. Which on this forum is not too many.
Some people claim that the phrase the ''Word of God'' is used only of Jesus. This is demonstrably false as will be seen below. The fact that in English the word 'Word' is capitalized when referring to Jesus is irrelevant.
In the original Greek there was no upper case and lower case. It was either all uppercase (majuscule) or lower case (minuscule).
Greek originally was written in majuscule. Later, Greek began to be written in minuscule.
The phase 'W/word of God' has a broader usage than referring to Jesus alone.
If Jesus alone is the Word of God, then why did Paul say that what he taught was the word of God? (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
If Jesus alone is the Word of God, then why in the book of Acts is the Gospel message repeatedly called the word of God? (Acts 4:31; 6:7; 8:14; 11:1; 13:5; 13:46; 17:13).
If Jesus alone is the Word of God, then why did Jesus Himself refer to what He taught as the word of God? He wasn't referring to Himself. He referred to the word of God as 'it.'
And if Jesus alone is the Word of God, then why did John who refers to Jesus as the Word of God also refer to the Revelation which was given to him by Jesus as the word of God? (Revelation 1:2). In Revelation 1:2 John makes a distinction between the word of God and Jesus.
No, the phrase 'W/word of God' does not refer to Jesus alone. In human history the word of God has come to man through various means. Direct communication from God, through angels, through dreams and visions, through prophets, through Jesus who Himself is God incarnate, through the apostles, and through the written word.
While Jesus is the living Word of God, the word of God has historically come in other forms as well.
Good post but you missed Acts 7:38 where Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit according to the author, calls the Torah "Living Oracles", that is, "λογια ζωντα", (Logia Zonta), the Living Oracles, Living Sayings, and Living Logia-Logos-Words of Elohim. A good study would be to look up all the usages of the word "oracle(s)" in the (KJV) New Testament: what you will find you may find highly enlightening, (because of the all important contexts surrounding this terminology).
Good post but you missed Acts 7:38 where Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit according to the author, calls the Torah "Living Oracles", that is, "λογια ζωντα", (Logia Zonta), the Living Oracles, Living Sayings, and Living Logia-Logos-Words of Elohim. A good study would be to look up all the usages of the word "oracle(s)" in the (KJV) New Testament: what you will find you may find highly enlightening, (because of the all important contexts surrounding this terminology).
AMEN. Please share more about the LIVING ORACLES. Peace
Show me instead where He ever said to throw those scriptures away. You can't and you know it. What He wanted was for them to look at the motive of the heart behind them (Spirit breathed revelation) NOT throw them away as trash. Peace
Who said anything about throwing them away ?. i am asking you to explain how God not me SAID in these last days He "HAS" spoken by his son, even though prior to this he spoke in various ways including theough the prophets. You are also aware too that this same Son that God SAID He "HAS" spoken to us by, also SAID listen to >>>>>>HIM. A blind man on a galloping horse can see and understand this.
Jesus Christ is the living letter of all that God IS.
AMEN. Please share more about the LIVING ORACLES. Peace
Stephen says by the context, (and therefore the author, "Luke", likewise says), that the Torah contains the Living Oracles, Living Sayings, Living Words which Moses and the fathers received to give to the people:
Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that same Moshe who said to the sons of Yisrael, "YHWH your Elohim shall raise up a Prophet unto you from among your brethren, like unto me."
38 This is the one who was in the congregation in the desert, with the Messenger-Angel who spoke to him in mount Sinai, and to our fathers, who received Living Oracles [λογια ζωντα] to give to us:
λογια ζωντα = Living Oracles / Living Sayings / Living Words = the Torah
Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Yhudi? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were entrusted with the Oracles of Elohim [τα λογια του θεου].
τα λογια του θεου = the Oracles-Sayings-Words of Elohim(God)
Hebrews 5:12-13
12 For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you rather have need again that someone teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the Oracles of Elohim, [των λογιων του θεου] and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food:
13 For every one partaking of milk is inexperienced in theWord of Righteousness, [λογου δικαιοσυνης] for he is a babe.
των λογιων του θεου ~ the Oracles of Elohim(God)
λογου δικαιοσυνης ~ the Word of Righteousness
And by the context:
των λογιων του θεου = λογου δικαιοσυνης
Therefore, I say, the Living Torah is the Living Testimony of the Living Father, and therefore the Living Torah is His Living Son: for Testimony is Spirit according to the Testimony of the Son, (John 6:63). And therefore those who "abolish" the Torah from their own hearts and minds do likewise at the same time "abolish" the Son of Elohim from their own hearts and minds: for the Son of Elohim is himself the Living Oracles, Living Sayings, and Living Words of Elohim which are the Torah. And because of these things having been plainly written, in manifold New Testament passages as shown above: this is the teaching of all of the Apostolic authors and their writings. In other words this is not just "my opinion" but that of Stephen, who according to the author of Acts was full of the Holy Spirit, (even saying that his face shown as that of an angel before the council, Acts 6:15), and therefore it is the "opinion" of the author of Acts, "Luke", and therefore likewise Paul, and likewise the author of the epistle to the Hebrews as shown above, and Peter likewise speaks in the same terms and manner concerning the Oracles of Elohim, (1Peter 4:11).
Stephen says by the context, (and therefore the author, "Luke", likewise says), that the Torah contains the Living Oracles, Living Sayings, Living Words which Moses and the fathers received to give to the people:
Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that same Moshe who said to the sons of Yisrael, "YHWH your Elohim shall raise up a Prophet unto you from among your brethren, like unto me."
38 This is the one who was in the congregation in the desert, with the Messenger-Angel who spoke to him in mount Sinai, and to our fathers, who received Living Oracles [λογια ζωντα] to give to us:
λογια ζωντα = Living Oracles / Living Sayings / Living Words = the Torah
Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Yhudi? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were entrusted with the Oracles of Elohim [τα λογια του θεου].
τα λογια του θεου = the Oracles-Sayings-Words of Elohim(God)
Hebrews 5:12-13
12 For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you rather have need again that someone teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the Oracles of Elohim, [των λογιων του θεου] and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food:
13 For every one partaking of milk is inexperienced in theWord of Righteousness, [λογου δικαιοσυνης] for he is a babe.
των λογιων του θεου ~ the Oracles of Elohim(God)
λογου δικαιοσυνης ~ the Word of Righteousness
And by the context:
των λογιων του θεου = λογου δικαιοσυνης
Therefore, I say, the Living Torah is the Living Testimony of the Living Father, and therefore the Living Torah is His Living Son: for Testimony is Spirit according to the Testimony of the Son, (John 6:63). And therefore those who "abolish" the Torah from their own hearts and minds do likewise at the same time "abolish" the Son of Elohim from their own hearts and minds: for the Son of Elohim is himself the Living Oracles, Living Sayings, and Living Words of Elohim which are the Torah. And because of these things having been plainly written, in manifold New Testament passages as shown above: this is the teaching of all of the Apostolic authors and their writings. In other words this is not just "my opinion" but that of Stephen, who according to the author of Acts was full of the Holy Spirit, (even saying that his face shown as that of an angel before the council, Acts 6:15), and therefore it is the "opinion" of the author of Acts, "Luke", and therefore likewise Paul, and likewise the author of the epistle to the Hebrews as shown above, and Peter likewise speaks in the same terms and manner concerning the Oracles of Elohim, (1Peter 4:11).
AMEN AND AMEN, all glory unto Him for ever and ever, AMEN.
NO, YOU reject the truth and the truth is, no one gets a free lunch regardless of what Christ did, we still have to appropriate it through the sanctification of the HG, that's part of what He died for, not just so you can live your life the way you want to, and then POOF! when you die suddenly you become spiritual and sanctified.
What you call appropriating it implies a single act. But the phrase "born from above" means a CONCEPTION, NOT a BIRTH. That means our life is a constant growth into spiritual maturity (what you call appropriating it). The Comforter sent in Christ's name is our guide to that maturity and the truth God has "written in our hearts." When we die, THEN we are born as Spirit as Jesus was and will join God and Jesus in whatever constitutes the next life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
And yet AGAIN you misrepresent what Mystic says, What part of suffering the consequences of our actions are you thinking is "fluffy?"
The ONLY difference between what you are saying and what Mystic is saying is that you believe that opportunity for change stops at physical death and what remains is punishment with NO opportunity to change. This is not JUSTICE, it is vengeance and a characteristic of unenlightened (unloving) thought.
Thank you, nate. This has been explained many times but she refuses to accept it and continues to misrepresent it in the way she prefers to see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
No, that is NOT the only difference, we must be born again, WHILE WE'RE ALIVE, not after we're dead and buried, as Mystic purports.
Yet again you misrepresent my views. We must grow and mature our embryo Spirit (CONCEIVED from above) while we are alive so it will be sufficiently mature to be born again as Spirit upon our death. Why do you insist on misstating my views??
Quote:
No, it's a characteristic of not throwing away the scriptures that teach men so, AND my own personal experience in being shown exactly what happens at the death of the body. As for it being unloving, it's not loving to leave someone in bondage, either before or after, death. Peace
No one is "throwing away the scriptures." We are properly dividing them and testing their spirit to ensure that they conform to the Holy Spirit of God as revealed, described in detail, and demonstrated by Jesus. That is NOT remotely throwing them away! I do not know what your experience was, but my experience of the consciousness of God matches the God described and demonstrated by Jesus.
What you call appropriating it implies a single act. But the phrase "born from above" means a CONCEPTION, NOT a BIRTH. That means our life is a constant growth into spiritual maturity (what you call appropriating it). The Comforter sent in Christ's name is our guide to that maturity and the truth God has "written in our hearts."
When we die, THEN we are born as Spirit as Jesus was and will join God and Jesus in whatever constitutes the next life.
Thank you, nate. This has been explained many times but she refuses to accept it and continues to misrepresent it in the way she prefers to see it.
Yet again you misrepresent my views. We must grow and mature our embryo Spirit (CONCEIVED from above) while we are alive so it will be sufficiently mature to be born again as Spirit upon our death. Why do you insist on misstating my views?? No one is "throwing away the scriptures." We are properly dividing them and testing their spirit to ensure that they conform to the Holy Spirit of God as revealed, described in detail, and demonstrated by Jesus. That is NOT remotely throwing them away! I do not know what your experience was, but my experience of the consciousness of God matches the God described and demonstrated by Jesus.
Did Jesus tell Nicodemus he must literally physically die to be born again? Yes or no?
Did He tell anyone that we are not born as Spirit until we die? Yes or no?
Did He say anything about not being mature spiritually until we've died physically? Yes or no?
And no, you're not rightly dividing anything, you're cherry picking the ones that line up with your skewed severely limited view. When the word is rightly divided which means to separate the natural understanding from the spiritual understanding and back again like the chaff from the wheat and like exposing the inward parts of the sacrifices (and that by the Spirit that wrote it), not one, NOT ONE, scripture does not build upon another upon another upon another. Peace
Did Jesus tell Nicodemus he must literally physically die to be born again? Yes or no?
Did He tell anyone that we are not born as Spirit until we die? Yes or no?
Did He say anything about not being mature spiritually until we've died physically? Yes or no?
And no, you're not rightly dividing anything, you're cherry picking the ones that line up with your skewed severely limited view. When the word is rightly divided which means to separate the natural understanding from the spiritual understanding and back again like the chaff from the wheat and like exposing the inward parts of the sacrifices (and that by the Spirit that wrote it), not one, NOT ONE, scripture does not build upon another upon another upon another. Peace
How is it you can be do black and white here but refuse point blank too in regards to Jesus clearly saying his Father was his source and not the written word how you would have us believe ?. It is clearly you dividing the scriptures wrongly to suit your agenda.
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Please share more about the LIVING ORACLES. Peace
