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Well, that is at least twice now in this thread alone where someone has quoted me and responded with things that have nothing to do with what I said. Perhaps that is a big part of the problem here: people using other peoples posts as nothing more than a launching pad to fire their own pontifications in the air, regardless of what was actually said.
Yeah, I understand how and why that often happens in forum settings. I also note that you appear to be one who does pay attention to what others are saying, and that is appreciated, whether we agree or not.
Apparently you also were not paying any attention either because you failed to mention anything I was actually debating with those who entirely disagreed and contradicted the scripture.
Lol, that is part of the disconnect I was speaking about dagg. The people you were speaking to were looking at the torah/law literally and so were disagreeing with your posts thinking you were speaking of the law literally. What I seen in your posts was a spiritual understanding and asked the readers to reread your posts because I think they would actually agree with them.
And I think you would actually agree that we are to test the spirits via the mind of Christ. For how else can we understand the spiritual law/torah except via the mind of Christ.
So the real issue is the literal understanding that people are having an issue with, I don't think many (maybe a few) would have an issue with people viewing the law as spiritual.
Wish I had the words to show the disconnect better dagg, I think nate understood me, but obviously others did not.
Lol, that is part of the disconnect I was speaking about dagg. The people you were speaking to were looking at the torah/law literally and so were disagreeing with your posts thinking you were speaking of the law literally. What I seen in your posts was a spiritual understanding and asked the readers to reread your posts because I think they would actually agree with them.
And I think you would actually agree that we are to test the spirits via the mind of Christ. For how else can we understand the spiritual law/torah except via the mind of Christ.
So the real issue is the literal understanding that people are having an issue with, I don't think many (maybe a few) would have an issue with people viewing the law as spiritual.
Wish I had the words to show the disconnect better dagg, I think nate understood me, but obviously others did not.
anyway carry on.
That was part of the initial point: the "mind of Messiah" is his Testimony, not what someone thinks in the machinations of his or her own imagination and then attributes to some "spirit" which he or she then gives the label, "Jesus", or "God". What is written is what counts, first and foremost, otherwise anyone can say that the scripture means whatever they want it to say because "the Spirit" told them so. That means nothing more than that someone has put the label of "Jesus" or "God" on their own spirit of the world so as to justify themselves and their beliefs. It is fraudulent because the same people ignore what is actually written in favor of the machinations of their own vain imaginations and call it "true Christianity", "love", "the mind of Christ", or whatever. The "mind of the Messiah" is his Testimony which is WRITTEN. All words of truth may result in death or life, depending on the hearer, that is why I said to someone else that the letters of Paul work the same way as far as "the letter killing", for those who read and search his words with a genuine heart will find life in them; but those who twist them do so to their own detriment, and those who twist them intentionally for their own purposes are dead because while there may be some light in them, it is darkness, being knowledge without the Logos-Reasoning of the Messiah whom Paul preaches, ("If the light that is in you be darkness; how great is that darkness!"). Moreover no one has said anything about how Stephen calls the Torah "Living Oracles-Sayings-Words", or the fact that if the Torah is LIVING then no one can abolish HIM except but in his or her own heart, mind, eyes, and soul, which is death because no one can kill Spirit and especially not the Son of Elohim, and therefore I said something like the following already once:
"Abolish the Torah" = "Abolish the Son of Elohim"...
For testimony is SPIRIT, and just as the Master says, his own words are Spirit and they are Life. Moreover he expounds the Torah in all of his doctrines, parables, proverbs, sayings, and idioms, which are found written in the Gospel accounts and the Torah and Prophets. Most here are simply arguing from nothing more than their own private opinions which, if they are not supported by what the scripture actually says and teaches, are worthless. In other words you cannot toss out what is written and then say that you have the Spirit of God or His Son when your doctrine flies in the face of the very Word of Elohim who is His Son. There is a reason why the Son of Elohim is called the Memra-Logos-Reasoning-Word of Elohim: for it concerns not only what is written but at the same time the logos-reasoning within what is written. If one does not have and hold what is written in uprightness and truth then the same does not have the logos-reasoning of the Word, plain and simple, and is simply interjecting his or her own worldly reasoning into what is written, while sidelining what is actually written, which is precisely what is occurring in this thread and most others. It is the dialectic antithesis form of argument which is designed for nothing more than to obfuscate, remove what is written from its own context, and sideline the Logos-Reasoning in what is WRITTEN.
That was part of the initial point: the "mind of Messiah" is his Testimony, not what someone thinks in the machinations of his or her own imagination and then attributes to some "spirit" which he or she then gives the label, "Jesus", or "God". What is written is what counts, first and foremost, otherwise anyone can say that the scripture means whatever they want it to say because "the Spirit" told them so. That means nothing more than that someone has put the label of "Jesus" or "God" on their own spirit of the world so as to justify themselves and their beliefs. It is fraudulent because the same people ignore what is actually written in favor of the machinations of their own vain imaginations and call it "true Christianity", "love", "the mind of Christ", or whatever. The "mind of the Messiah" is his Testimony which is WRITTEN. All words of truth may result in death or life, depending on the hearer, that is why I said to someone else that the letters of Paul work the same way as far as "the letter killing", for those who read and search his words with a genuine heart will find life in them; but those who twist them do so to their own detriment, and those who twist them intentionally for their own purposes are dead because while there may be some light in them, it is darkness, being knowledge without the Logos-Reasoning of the Messiah whom Paul preaches, ("If the light that is in you be darkness; how great is that darkness!"). Moreover no one has said anything about how Stephen calls the Torah "Living Oracles-Sayings-Words", or the fact that if the Torah is LIVING then no one can abolish HIM except but in his or her own heart, mind, eyes, and soul, which is death because no one can kill Spirit and especially not the Son of Elohim, and therefore I said something like the following already once:
"Abolish the Torah" = "Abolish the Son of Elohim"...
For testimony is SPIRIT, and just as the Master says, his own words are Spirit and they are Life. Moreover he expounds the Torah in all of his doctrines, parables, proverbs, sayings, and idioms, which are found written in the Gospel accounts and the Torah and Prophets. Most here are simply arguing from nothing more than their own private opinions which, if they are not supported by what the scripture actually says and teaches, are worthless. In other words you cannot toss out what is written and then say that you have the Spirit of God or His Son when your doctrine flies in the face of the very Word of Elohim who is His Son. There is a reason why the Son of Elohim is called the Memra-Logos-Reasoning-Word of Elohim: for it concerns not only what is written but at the same time the logos-reasoning within what is written. If one does not have and hold what is written in uprightness and truth then the same does not have the logos-reasoning of the Word, plain and simple, and is simply interjecting his or her own worldly reasoning into what is written, while sidelining what is actually written, which is precisely what is occurring in this thread and most others. It is the dialectic antithesis form of argument which is designed for nothing more than to obfuscate, remove what is written from its own context, and sideline the Logos-Reasoning in what is WRITTEN.
AMEN. Spirit plus written words = witness of each other. Peace
AMEN. Spirit plus written words = witness of each other. Peace
Explain then how it is that the ministry of the Spirit is far more glorious than the ministry of the letter. If they are one and the same how is one more glorious ?.
Read Acts 14 too, there is no mention to the gentile believers of having to seek God BY the scriptures.
Explain then how it is that the ministry of the Spirit is far more glorious than the ministry of the letter. If they are one and the same how is one more glorious ?.
Read Acts 14 too, there is no mention to the gentile believers of having to seek God BY the scriptures.
Such reasoning still misses the point: Moses ministered the letter but Messiah ministers the Spirit of the letter. You cannot have one without the other because the logos-reasoning of the Messiah comes from the letter. If you "abolish" the letter then you no longer have the logos-reasoning which is derived from the letter. Moreover, in the passage which you reference there is a context, and that contextual backdrop is a Torah passage, and that which was to be done away was the skin of the face of Moses, "the flesh", (not the Torah).
Such reasoning still misses the point: Moses ministered the letter but Messiah ministers the Spirit of the letter. You cannot have one without the other because the logos-reasoning of the Messiah comes from the letter. If you "abolish" the letter then you no longer have the logos-reasoning which is derived from the letter. Moreover, in the passage which you reference there is a context, and that contextual backdrop is a Torah passage, and that which was to be done away was the skin of the face of Moses, "the flesh", (not the Torah).
That is not what it is saying at all. I agree that when on the odd occasion he referenced the scripture he spoke it it was life, because nothing he said was not life.
Verse 6 cleary states it is NOT of the letter but OF the Spirit. So Jesus Christ ministered by the Spirit and not how you are suggesting by the Spirit of the letter because it was not OF the letter. So it is not me taking it out of context it is you adding to it. One is passing away while the other is becoming more glorious as it takes root and grows in all who acknowledge and turn to the Lord.
In other words, don't conflate the letter with the Word.
Exactly, Jesus said new wine needs to be in new wine skins.
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