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Old 09-22-2017, 02:09 PM
 
10,491 posts, read 4,137,043 times
Reputation: 1192

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The universe doesn't care but my wallet does.
I draw the line at who's gona pay if the parents can't support the kid.
It's not my kids fault they acted irresponsibly either.

we have a major debt to pay down.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:11 PM
 
Location: South-Western USA , desert
440 posts, read 329,249 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWhiteBlue View Post
. . . The word adelphos is used throughout both the New Testament and the Septuagint Old Testament to refer to many kinds of kinship. . .
Yes . . . but only when used merely figuratively or metaphorically, but . . .
When used to designate either legal or physical relationship, its meaning is limited to either full or half brother:

In the N[ew] T[estament] adelphos [brother], when used not merely figuratively or metaphorically but rather to designate some sort of physical or legal relationship, means only full or half-brother, and nothing else.”
---“The Brothers and Sisters of Jesus in Ecumenical Perspective,”
by John P. Meier, The Catholic Biblical Quarterly, January 1992, page 21.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWhiteBlue View Post
. . . In Galatians 1, Paul says that he went back to Jerusalem where he saw only two of the apostles: Peter (Cephas), and "James the brother of the Lord" (again using adelphos.) There are two apostles named James, and Scripture identifies one as the son of Zebedee, and the other as the son of Alpheus. Neither is the son of Joseph and Mary -- so the description of James can only mean "kinsman.". . .


Yes . . . there are two of Christ's apostles named James. . . .

However, the assumption that the description of James (Galatians 1:19) "can only mean 'kinsman'" fails to take all the available facts into consideration. . . .

There are both Scriptural & historical evidence of a third follower of Christ named 'James'.

A close examination of Scripture alone reveals this "James" . . . who is one of Jesus' half-brothers,
however there is historical evidence, as well.



Scripture indicates that Jesus' half-brothers had no faith in him as the prophesied Messiah
until after his death & later resurrection, as the following recorded event reveals:


"Then he [Jesus] went into a house,and again the crowd [of his disciples] gathered, so that they were not able even to eat a meal. But when his relatives heard about it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying: 'He has gone out of his mind.' Also, the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying: 'He has Beelzebub, and he expels the demons by means of the ruler of the demons.' So after calling them to him, he spoke to them with illustrations . . .

"Now his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. As there was a crowd [of his disciples] sitting around him, they said to him: 'Look! Your mother and your brothers are outside asking for you.' But he replied to them: 'Who are my mother and my brothers?' Then he looked at those sitting around him in a circle and said: 'See, my mother and my brothers! Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother and sister and mother.'” (Mark 3:19-21, 31-35)


In reference to verses 31-35, the following comment is found in Catholic publications:

The Greek words . . . used to designate the relationship between Jesus and these relativeshave the meaning of full blood brother and sister in the Greek-speaking world of the Evangelist’s timeand would naturally be taken by his Greek reader in this sense.”

---The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. IX, p. 337


Another verse to consider is 1 Corinthians 15:7, which (in 3 Catholic Bibles) says:


"Then he appeared to James, and afterward to all the apostles."
(Good News Translation; GNT w/ Apocrypha)


"After that, he was seen by James: then by all the apostles."
(Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible)

"Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles."
(Common English Bible; CEB w/ Apocrypha)



We see here that 1 Corinthians 15:7
does not say that Paul appeared to either: James the son of Zebedee -or- James the son of Alphaeus (both very specific identification) . . . or to either 'a brother of the Lord' -or- 'our brother of the Lord' (both very general descriptions) . . . & then to the rest of the apostles, or, the other apostles. . . .

Rather, it clearly differentiates the James whom Christ appeared to first, from the two apostles who share the name 'James'. . . .

So, it indicates that Jesus appeared to the non-apostle --& non-believer at the time-- James / his half-brother . . . and then to all of his apostles, who had been definite believers & followers of Christ for awhile. . . .



Otherwise, if the 'James' whom Christ appeared to alone had been one of his apostles, some kind of clarification would have been provided as to which apostle James was being referred to (since it was deemed important enough to record this event in the first place) . . . or else, the verse could have simply stated: "Then he appeared to all of his apostles.". . .

However, there was a definite reason to single this James out . . . that being that he did not yet believe that Jesus was the Messiah, so was not yet even one of his followers.

(Christ did something similar when he 'appeared to' / struck the unbeliever 'Saul' blind --as he was on route to have more Christians stoned to death, an ongoing project he wholeheartedly pursued-- after which he listened attentively when taught the truth about Christ, so that he quickly became a Christian himself . . . after which he went by the name of 'Paul'. Acts 9:3-5)

It is notable that, after the death of Jesus and prior to Pentecost 33 C.E., it is evident that Jesus' half-brother James was assembled for prayer together with his mother, brothers, and the apostles in an upper chamber in Jerusalem, thus indicating that he had since become a follower of Christ. (Acts 1:13, 14)



Now, let us consider the verses you referred to in Galatians. . . .

In Galatians 1:17-19, Paul did not refer to James as either 'the son of Zebedee', 'the son of Alphaeus' (both being specific descriptions) . . . 'a brother of the Lord' -or- 'our brother' (both general descriptions). . . . Paul instead noted that this James was "the Lord's brother" . . . a very specific description, one that differentiates him from the other two men named James, who were apostles.


For that reason Galatians 1:17-19 has appropriately been rendered:


"I [Paul] did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was,
but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus. Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days.
I saw none of the other apostlesonly James, the Lord’s brother.
(New International Version)

"Nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before I was,
but I went to Arabia, and then I returned to Damascus. Then three years later
I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and I stayed with him 15 days.
But I did not see any of the other apostles, only James the brother of the Lord."
(New World Translation)




Please Note Also this Historical Evidence of the existence of Jesus' half-brother James. . . .

Although in the Scriptures there is no record of his death, the secular historian Josephus says that during the interval between the death of Governor Festus (about 62 C.E.), and the arrival of his successor Albinus . . . the high priest, Ananus (Ananias), “convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned.”—Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200 (ix, 1).



Another issue that comes up is that many assume that the men inspired to pen the Christian Greek Scriptures must have all been Christ's apostles --(I know I used to)-- however, that is not the case:


Luke was inspired of God to pen two Bible books (The Gospel of Luke & Acts), but was not an apostle. He was a faithful companion of the apostle Paul who apparently became a believer sometime after Pentecost of 33 C.E. . . .

Mark was likewise not an apostle, & was a cousin of Barnabas, his traveling companion and that of other early Christian missionaries . . . and he was inspired to write the Gospel that we call by his name. (Colossians 4:10) . . . .

So, there is no argument that the writer of the Bible book of James had to have been one of Christ's apostles by that name.


All the indications are that a third James who became a Christian was half-brother to Jesus Christ, & in addition to while not one of the apostles.
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:58 AM
pll
 
1,042 posts, read 2,091,996 times
Reputation: 1048
Read the last verses in the bible where it says not to add to the book. If it's not there then don't make it up.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:54 PM
 
Location: US
26,249 posts, read 13,920,882 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Q&Lrn&Hlp View Post
Yes . . . but only when used merely figuratively or metaphorically, but . . .
When used to designate either legal or physical relationship, its meaning is limited to either full or half brother:

In the N[ew] T[estament] adelphos [brother], when used not merely figuratively or metaphorically but rather to designate some sort of physical or legal relationship, means only full or half-brother, and nothing else.”
---“The Brothers and Sisters of Jesus in Ecumenical Perspective,”
by John P. Meier, The Catholic Biblical Quarterly, January 1992, page 21.





Yes . . . there are two of Christ's apostles named James. . . .

However, the assumption that the description of James (Galatians 1:19) "can only mean 'kinsman'" fails to take all the available facts into consideration. . . .

There are both Scriptural & historical evidence of a third follower of Christ named 'James'.

A close examination of Scripture alone reveals this "James" . . . who is one of Jesus' half-brothers,
however there is historical evidence, as well.



Scripture indicates that Jesus' half-brothers had no faith in him as the prophesied Messiah
until after his death & later resurrection, as the following recorded event reveals:


"Then he [Jesus] went into a house,and again the crowd [of his disciples] gathered, so that they were not able even to eat a meal. But when his relatives heard about it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying: 'He has gone out of his mind.' Also, the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying: 'He has Beelzebub, and he expels the demons by means of the ruler of the demons.' So after calling them to him, he spoke to them with illustrations . . .

"Now his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. As there was a crowd [of his disciples] sitting around him, they said to him: 'Look! Your mother and your brothers are outside asking for you.' But he replied to them: 'Who are my mother and my brothers?' Then he looked at those sitting around him in a circle and said: 'See, my mother and my brothers! Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother and sister and mother.'” (Mark 3:19-21, 31-35)


In reference to verses 31-35, the following comment is found in Catholic publications:

The Greek words . . . used to designate the relationship between Jesus and these relativeshave the meaning of full blood brother and sister in the Greek-speaking world of the Evangelist’s timeand would naturally be taken by his Greek reader in this sense.”

---The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. IX, p. 337


Another verse to consider is 1 Corinthians 15:7, which (in 3 Catholic Bibles) says:


"Then he appeared to James, and afterward to all the apostles."
(Good News Translation; GNT w/ Apocrypha)


"After that, he was seen by James: then by all the apostles."
(Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible)

"Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles."
(Common English Bible; CEB w/ Apocrypha)



We see here that 1 Corinthians 15:7
does not say that Paul appeared to either: James the son of Zebedee -or- James the son of Alphaeus (both very specific identification) . . . or to either 'a brother of the Lord' -or- 'our brother of the Lord' (both very general descriptions) . . . & then to the rest of the apostles, or, the other apostles. . . .

Rather, it clearly differentiates the James whom Christ appeared to first, from the two apostles who share the name 'James'. . . .

So, it indicates that Jesus appeared to the non-apostle --& non-believer at the time-- James / his half-brother . . . and then to all of his apostles, who had been definite believers & followers of Christ for awhile. . . .



Otherwise, if the 'James' whom Christ appeared to alone had been one of his apostles, some kind of clarification would have been provided as to which apostle James was being referred to (since it was deemed important enough to record this event in the first place) . . . or else, the verse could have simply stated: "Then he appeared to all of his apostles.". . .

However, there was a definite reason to single this James out . . . that being that he did not yet believe that Jesus was the Messiah, so was not yet even one of his followers.

(Christ did something similar when he 'appeared to' / struck the unbeliever 'Saul' blind --as he was on route to have more Christians stoned to death, an ongoing project he wholeheartedly pursued-- after which he listened attentively when taught the truth about Christ, so that he quickly became a Christian himself . . . after which he went by the name of 'Paul'. Acts 9:3-5)

It is notable that, after the death of Jesus and prior to Pentecost 33 C.E., it is evident that Jesus' half-brother James was assembled for prayer together with his mother, brothers, and the apostles in an upper chamber in Jerusalem, thus indicating that he had since become a follower of Christ. (Acts 1:13, 14)



Now, let us consider the verses you referred to in Galatians. . . .

In Galatians 1:17-19, Paul did not refer to James as either 'the son of Zebedee', 'the son of Alphaeus' (both being specific descriptions) . . . 'a brother of the Lord' -or- 'our brother' (both general descriptions). . . . Paul instead noted that this James was "the Lord's brother" . . . a very specific description, one that differentiates him from the other two men named James, who were apostles.


For that reason Galatians 1:17-19 has appropriately been rendered:


"I [Paul] did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was,
but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus. Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days.
I saw none of the other apostlesonly James, the Lord’s brother.
(New International Version)

"Nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before I was,
but I went to Arabia, and then I returned to Damascus. Then three years later
I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and I stayed with him 15 days.
But I did not see any of the other apostles, only James the brother of the Lord."
(New World Translation)




Please Note Also this Historical Evidence of the existence of Jesus' half-brother James. . . .

Although in the Scriptures there is no record of his death, the secular historian Josephus says that during the interval between the death of Governor Festus (about 62 C.E.), and the arrival of his successor Albinus . . . the high priest, Ananus (Ananias), “convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned.”—Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200 (ix, 1).



Another issue that comes up is that many assume that the men inspired to pen the Christian Greek Scriptures must have all been Christ's apostles --(I know I used to)-- however, that is not the case:


Luke was inspired of God to pen two Bible books (The Gospel of Luke & Acts), but was not an apostle. He was a faithful companion of the apostle Paul who apparently became a believer sometime after Pentecost of 33 C.E. . . .

Mark was likewise not an apostle, & was a cousin of Barnabas, his traveling companion and that of other early Christian missionaries . . . and he was inspired to write the Gospel that we call by his name. (Colossians 4:10) . . . .

So, there is no argument that the writer of the Bible book of James had to have been one of Christ's apostles by that name.


All the indications are that a third James who became a Christian was half-brother to Jesus Christ, & in addition to while not one of the apostles.
He wasn't the half brother...
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:52 PM
 
4,024 posts, read 972,019 times
Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by pll View Post
Read the last verses in the bible where it says not to add to the book. If it's not there then don't make it up.
hum.. you took that verse out of contest.. he is talking about the book of REV.. and the curses there,, knowing full well how much men would hate that book with a vengeance I think men would have played with it words if that curse were not there. and even the atheist won't play out there long anyway. because it is a curse with a purpose and I think That He intends to keep and has kept it..
Now if men chose to recognize their conditions and ailments as part of that curse is another question.
I will bet he has been faithful to keep his word, even the curses .
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:57 PM
 
4,024 posts, read 972,019 times
Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
He wasn't the half brother...
an especially you won't let him be that //// since the destruction of the temple might be associated with his death/murder .. being chances are he was the rightful heir to the throne of David alive at the time and it was thus HIS temple and no one elses alive !! just as King David could go before the Lord in holy of holies so would any of his direct son and grandsons.. . But then so could have James as the rightful heir to Israel , If God was in it , even dwelling there ( which he had left 60 years before that even ) .. .... yet James murdered in cold blood by the religious .. what a mess was made by the unbelievers / religious Jews who did not know their own God . and murder their rightful kings.

Last edited by n..Xuipa; 01-14-2018 at 10:06 PM..
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:27 AM
 
Location: US
26,249 posts, read 13,920,882 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by n..Xuipa View Post
an especially you won't let him be that //// since the destruction of the temple might be associated with his death/murder .. being chances are he was the rightful heir to the throne of David alive at the time and it was thus HIS temple and no one elses alive !! just as King David could go before the Lord in holy of holies so would any of his direct son and grandsons.. . But then so could have James as the rightful heir to Israel , If God was in it , even dwelling there ( which he had left 60 years before that even ) .. .... yet James murdered in cold blood by the religious .. what a mess was made by the unbelievers / religious Jews who did not know their own God . and murder their rightful kings.
Sure...Whatever....
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:07 PM
 
473 posts, read 121,092 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
What are your thoughts on Joseph being a widower before marrying Mary? I've read some text that he was married and had kids then his wife died. I've never heard this before but I know this is definitely a common occurrence during those times, and earlier.
According to the spirit of Ama, Joseph was an old man who was never married, a descendant of King David, and from the tribe of Judah (page 14, Pasiong Mahal). He did not have any children. Although the King James Version of the Holy Bible said that in Matthew 13:55-56 and Mark 6:3, Ama, who I believe in, said that they were just added in.
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