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in the thread about native americans I go back into ancient history as to even why He raised up hebrew in Egypt and why he brought them to those lands and why he will claim them again , and why he had to force those people off that land.. .. I suggest you read it and study it .. the mengewi wars( SEE Narmer's palette and the death and I believe betrayal of The Great Kings / theft of their nations and lands, good and queens in their materlineal societies were then slaves out, Moche in south america call these" the sitting gods' , but are really ancestors ) that war is unfinished and it is a old old war. They are coming back , these will be resurrected to be judged and they will come back with a vengeance and also one of spiritual beings also like preflood days .
and this is why The Lord has been trying to "save the world" /protect the world . and that just a tiny part of the truth of history no one recorded ... it was only passed most orally and satan has tried to destroy these over and over who did know history... now you don't want that vengeful God to save you, when he has only been trying to restore what mengewi/Egypt/Mizraim stole and slaved and used and abused from the whole world , and controlled the bloodlines of all nations for a very longtime. so as to control the wealth of the nations.( not even considering their head lopping and bloody ways.. ) all about the wealth of those great kings nations. which Egypt and canaanites stole and controlled the wealth of the world for ages.. ... then just remember it is your choice .. He can and will only protect what is legally his to protect.
Lessons to be learned from Paul about how NOT to read the OT:
Quote:
Remember, Paul’s conversion to Christ was not one of a “sinner” who finds religion. Paul already had religion, and describes himself in fact as a religious zealot who could boast that his observance of the Torah was “faultless” (Phil 3: 6). So while Luther might say “no one can keep the law,” Paul here declares that he had in fact kept it flawlessly.
Yet despite this, Paul came to regard himself as “the worst of all sinners” and “a violent man” (1 Tim 1: 13, 15). He confesses painfully, “I do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God” (1 Cor 15: 9).
Paul’s own self-described sin was one that was committed in the name of religion. It was not a sin that came from a failure to keep the law, but one committed in the practice of carrying it out and defending it by means of violence. Paul’s conversion was one away from religious fanaticism. In other words, Paul did not see himself as rejecting his Jewish faith or Israel’s scriptures, but rather as rejecting his former violent interpretation of them. Paul’s great sin—as he came to understand it—had been participation in what he understood as religiously justified acts of violence, motivated by religious zeal.
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That same logic of using divine-sanctioned violence to preserve purity had driven Paul to violently persecute the church. So while we have seen that Jesus rejected the violent way of Elijah; Paul in contrast had formerly seen Elijah’s example of violence as an inspiration and model.
In sum, before his conversion, Paul had read his Bible and concluded that he should commit violence in God’s name. After his encounter with Christ, and his experience of healing and enemy love from Jesus’ disciples (Acts 9: 11–18), Paul needed to completely reassess how to understand the Scripture he had previously read in this toxic and violent way, leading him to a radically different understanding of God’s will, and a radically different way of interpreting those same Scriptures.
Derek Flood, Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did; Chapter Three
in the thread about native americans I go back into ancient history as to even why He raised up hebrew in Egypt and why he brought them to those lands and why he will claim them again , and why he had to force those people off that land.. .. I suggest you read it and study it .. the mengewi wars( SEE Narmer's palette and the death and I believe betrayal of The Great Kings / theft of their nations and lands, good and queens in their materlineal societies were then slaves out, Moche in south america call these" the sitting gods' , but are really ancestors ) that war is unfinished and it is a old old war. They are coming back , these will be resurrected to be judged and they will come back with a vengeance and also one of spiritual beings also like preflood days .
and this is why The Lord has been trying to "save the world" /protect the world . and that just a tiny part of the truth of history no one recorded ... it was only passed most orally and satan has tried to destroy these over and over who did know history... now you don't want that vengeful God to save you, when he has only been trying to restore what mengewi/Egypt/Mizraim stole and slaved and used and abused from the whole world , and controlled the bloodlines of all nations for a very longtime. so as to control the wealth of the nations.( not even considering their head lopping and bloody ways.. ) all about the wealth of those great kings nations. which Egypt and canaanites stole and controlled the wealth of the world for ages.. ... then just remember it is your choice .. He can and will only protect what is legally his to protect.
More lessons from Paul about what to ACCEPT from Scripture and what to leave OUT.
Quote:
We now turn to explore in more detail just how Paul’s reading of Scripture radically changed after his conversion away from religious violence, with a particular focus on how Paul deals with violent passages in the Old Testament that call for killing Gentiles: In Romans 15, for example, Paul quotes several scriptural passages to illustrate how Gentiles “may glorify God for his mercy” because of the gospel (verse 9).
Highly significant is what Paul omits from these passages: "For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: “I destroyed my foes. They cried for help, but there was no one to save them—to the LORD, but he did not answer ... He is the God who avenges me, who puts the Gentiles under me… Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name.” [quoting Psalm 18: 41–49] Again, it says, “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people, for he will avenge the blood of his servants; he will take vengeance on his enemies and make atonement for his land and people.” [Deuteronomy 32: 43](verbiage in red is missing from Paul's OT quote)
Paul has removed the references to violence against Gentiles, and re-contextualized these passages to instead declare God’s mercy in Christ for Gentiles. This constitutes a major redefinition of how salvation is conceived: Instead of salvation meaning God “delivering” the ancient Israelites from the hands of their enemies through military victory (as described in Psalm 18, which Paul is quoting from), Paul now understands salvation to mean the restoration of all people in Christ, including those same “enemy” Gentiles.
Paul’s focus in Romans was on the inclusion of Gentiles into the promise of Israel. This is the polar opposite of what his focus had formerly been when he had instead embraced the narrative of violent zeal and purity. Surely Paul had formerly read these passages, which clearly speak of the slaughter of Gentiles, and used them to justify violence in God’s name. So it is no coincidence that he now picks these same passages to declare God’s love and grace towards Gentiles with his radical editing of these texts.
verbiage in RED is left out of Paul's quotes of the OT.
Derek Flood, Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did;
In other words Paul no longer embraced the original intent of the verses he quoted. He could have quoted Isaiah 49:6 which speaks of Israel being "a light to the Gentiles" but instead chose bloody anti-Gentile verses that he could doctor to mean something different.
in the thread about native americans I go back into ancient history as to even why He raised up hebrew in Egypt and why he brought them to those lands and why he will claim them again , and why he had to force those people off that land.. .. I suggest you read it and study it .. the mengewi wars( SEE Narmer's palette and the death and I believe betrayal of The Great Kings / theft of their nations and lands, good and queens in their materlineal societies were then slaves out, Moche in south america call these" the sitting gods' , but are really ancestors ) that war is unfinished and it is a old old war. They are coming back , these will be resurrected to be judged and they will come back with a vengeance and also one of spiritual beings also like preflood days .
and this is why The Lord has been trying to "save the world" /protect the world . and that just a tiny part of the truth of history no one recorded ... it was only passed most orally and satan has tried to destroy these over and over who did know history... now you don't want that vengeful God to save you, when he has only been trying to restore what mengewi/Egypt/Mizraim stole and slaved and used and abused from the whole world , and controlled the bloodlines of all nations for a very longtime. so as to control the wealth of the nations.( not even considering their head lopping and bloody ways.. ) all about the wealth of those great kings nations. which Egypt and canaanites stole and controlled the wealth of the world for ages.. ... then just remember it is your choice .. He can and will only protect what is legally his to protect.
But even JESUS left out words of the OT that didn't fit His view of what the LAW was about:
Quote:
We can get an idea of how provocative Paul’s editing and disarming of Scripture would have seemed to his audience at the time by comparing it to a similar instance where Jesus employed this same method when he read from Isaiah in the synagogue at the inauguration of his ministry, "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor" and the day of vengeance of our God (Lk 4: 18–19)
Jesus stops reading here mid-sentence, omitting the ending which announces “the day of vengeance of our God.” (Isa 61: 2). This would have been something that the people had been looking forward to, hoping for. The awaited time when the Roman oppressors would have finally gotten theirs!
Luke tells us that after cutting this sentence in half, Jesus “rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down” (v. 20). Then, with everyone’s eyes fixed on him, Jesus announces, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing” (v. 20–21).
In other words, the part about preaching good news to the poor, sight for the blind, and release of the captives is fulfilled in Jesus, but not the part about God’s vengeance. That part isn’t going to happen. Luke then describes the reaction of the people, which sounds very positive, All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked. (Lk 4: 22) Most translations render this as the New International Version (NIV) does above, “All spoke well of him (emartyroun autō) and were amazed (ethaumazon).”
Both of these verbs however are ambiguous in the Greek. Martyreō with the dative can mean both “testify for” or “testify against,” and thaumazō can mean “to wonder” either in the sense of enthusiasm, or of shock. 28 So this verse can equally be translated as, All bore witness against him (emartyroun autō) and were shocked (ethaymazon) at the words of grace coming from his mouth. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son!?” they asked. (Lk 4: 22) A major indicator as to which of these possible readings we should adopt can be found in what happens next: Jesus’ response to their exclamation is to answer with an angry rebuke, declaring “no prophet is accepted in his hometown!” (v. 24). This indicates that their question “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” was not a compliment, as if to say “Wow, that’s wonderful, Joseph must be so proud!” but rather something more akin to “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” (Jn 1: 46).
Jesus’ rebuke continues, I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.” (Lk 4: 25–27) Both the widow in Zarephath and Naaman the Syrian in these two examples are Gentiles.
Jesus is stating that while there were many in Israel who were hungry and sick, Gentiles were the recipients of God’s providence and healing here. In other words, in case his audience had not gotten why he left out the part from Isaiah about vengeance towards Gentiles, now with these two passages Jesus spells it out for them. Luke tells us that the people “were furious” and “drove him out of the town … in order to throw him down the cliff” (Lk 4: 28–29). Based on this extreme reaction—one where they want to kill him—it’s hard to believe that they were complimenting him just moments before, and much more likely that the people’s initial reaction was one of shock and condemnation at Jesus’ message of grace without wrath. Everyone likes hearing a message of grace toward ourselves, but we don’t so much like hearing a message of grace for our enemies.
Just as Paul’s religious audience in Romans was longing for wrath, so too was the audience of Jesus here. They believed—like so many still do today—that the way justice is fulfilled is by the destruction of their enemies. Jesus and Paul are both confronting this common religious belief that God’s justice comes about through the violent destruction of the “bad people.” This violent view was at the heart of the common Jewish messianic expectation which hoped for God to come in vengeance, and thus understood the messiah as a warrior king who would vanquish the pagan oppressors and restore Israel to its glory.
As we can see in this passage, the people are thus pleased when they hear that Jesus will work to liberate the people from their oppression. However, when they understand that this will involve showing grace and not vengeance to Gentiles, they become furious with Jesus and try to kill him.
verbiage in red was not in Jesus' quote from the OT---He left it OUT--intentionally
Derek Flood, Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did;
So I read the OT like Jesus and Paul did--discarding the vengeful god and accepting the higher purpose of the Law which was to love and accept the unacceptable.
The question is, why don't you follow Jesus' footsteps?
But even JESUS left out words of the OT that didn't fit His view of what the LAW was about:
verbiage in red was not in Jesus' quote from the OT---He left it OUT--intentionally
Derek Flood, Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did;
So I read the OT like Jesus and Paul did--discarding the vengeful god and accepting the higher purpose of the Law which was to love and accept the unacceptable.
The question is, why don't you follow Jesus' footsteps?
Keep quoting Warden then i won't have to buy the book . No seriously, thank you for sharing these snippets. I wish those fundies(especially the ones who know deep dpwn things don't add up) would just stop fearing thinking God will smite them if they just lay aside their prejudices and biases for one moment and considered with an open heart what is being presented to them.
Keep quoting Warden then i won't have to buy the book . No seriously, thank you for sharing these snippets. I wish those fundies(especially the ones who know deep dpwn things don't add up) would just stop fearing thinking God will smite them if they just lay aside their prejudices and biases for one moment and considered with an open heart what is being presented to them.
You're too funny.....why would any of us want to drink the Kool-Aide? Fear of G-d smiting us has NADA to do with it, BTW. We can read and haven't had to throw out 3/4 of the scripture to arrive at our own "sound" doctrine. Peace
You're too funny.....why would any of us want to drink the Kool-Aide? Fear of G-d smiting us has NADA to do with it, BTW. We can read and haven't had to throw out 3/4 of the scripture to arrive at our own "sound" doctrine. Peace
Well, address the points in question then. No one is asking you to drink anything, just be open and honest enough to admit to the contradictions within the writings, you won't get smitten if you did nor will you begin back sliding if you are rooted and established in the love of God, you might if you're not, but that's gotta be better than calling something inerrant and infallible when it's clearly not.
Well, address the points in question then. No one is asking you to drink anything, just be open and honest enough to admit to the contradictions within the writings, you won't get smitten if you did nor will you begin back sliding if you are rooted and established in the love of God, you might if you're not, but that's gotta be better than calling something inerrant and infallible when it's clearly not.
Well, how about for a change YOU address all the scriptures we post that you blatantly ignore while demanding we pay homage to the ones you take out of context? Such as what Stephen said about the LIVING ORACLES OF G-D, ie. being that of the OT scriptures? Peace
Yes He does. Few realize part of what He was manifesting in the NT was the nature of El Shaddai, the many breasted one, ie. the nature of a MOTHER. But who is the disciplinarian supposed to be? It's not mother. Peace
well yes and no... but he deals with us first as a father and to deal with the powers over our sins and hurts and demonic Opression and such( the lies we believe that demons hide behind) .. if we don't deal with him there he is slow to reveal his personal humanity. just as anyone dealing with a child..a baby isn't having personal talks with daddy until baby can handle it age appropriately.. we all can cuddle in his or the spirits arms and heal ..but it is as daddy not like friends would so much who have each others back as equals . that takes time . he has to start sharing his heart with you.. you have to come to a place you can help him carry the burdens( thus pick up your cross and follow him ) burdens that he carries..make him laugh or something.. that is my job.. to try and bust him up everyday...
Well, how about for a change YOU address all the scriptures we post that you blatantly ignore while demanding we pay homage to the ones you take out of context? Such as what Stephen said about the LIVING ORACLES OF G-D, ie. being that of the OT scriptures? Peace
Someone gave you a bone and you continue to run with it.
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True.
. No seriously, thank you for sharing these snippets. I wish those fundies(especially the ones who know deep dpwn things don't add up) would just stop fearing thinking God will smite them if they just lay aside their prejudices and biases for one moment and considered with an open heart what is being presented to them.
Peace
Someone gave you a bone and you continue to run with it.
