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How limited of thought and mind to be unable to accept the existence of realms beyond the visible, physical realm which we inhabit. How is it that you are unable or unwilling to conceive of the supernatural realm which exists beyond the natural realm?
Many are able, they just do not want to accept it.
This is very old news. The Comma Johanneum is a known later scribal addition and not a part of the original autographs. It is therefore illogical to use it to question whether what is actually a part of the original autographs is ''God breathed.''
RESPONSE: So you are admitting that the Bible is not entirely written by the inspiration of God but rather by men, right? Either that, or God made many errors and contradictions. Lets examine some.
While there are a few instances in which dictation is involved, such as in Revelation chapters two and three where Jesus told John what to write, in the vast majority of the cases the writers of scripture used their own words, their own vocabulary, their own writing style, and their own frame of reference to record God's message to man. This can be readily seen by the fact that in the synoptic gospels, in parallel accounts the different writers paraphase the events or sayings that they are reporting.
Having said that, yes, God is the divine author and He used human writers to pen the books and letters of the Bible under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit. This overseeing by the Holy Spirit included the grunt work done as for instance by Luke in which he investigated the eye witnesses of Jesus and compiled his information for his gospel account (Luke 1:1-4).
RESPONSE:
But errors occurred, right? Lets look at some outstanding ones.
Every single issue you're bringing up concerns whether or not changes were made by later scribes to later manuscript copies and have no bearing on whether what was originally written by the New Testament writers themselves in the original autographs was inspired or God breathed. And Bible translations usually indicate these textual variants. As for the longer ending of Mark and the Pericope Adulterae, they are, along with the Comma Johanneum, the biggest and longest of the textual variants, and again, are known to be later additions and not original to the text.
Alterations to manuscript copies which of course were produced after the original autographs do not invalidate the inspiration of the original autographs.
RESPONSE: As we go along, please present your evidence that the original autographs were different that the Bible we now have. And, of course, present the original autographs if you claim they exist.
But if such errors exist and are many, clearly we cannot rely on the Bible as being "God breathed" can we?
Last edited by Aristotles child; 11-20-2017 at 02:47 PM..
This is very old news. The Comma Johanneum is a known later scribal addition and not a part of the original autographs. It is therefore illogical to use it to question whether what is actually a part of the original autographs is ''God breathed.''
Old news or new news, it is just one of many indications that the Bible is the product of men inspired by God, but NOT dictated and NOT infallible or inerrant. There is zero evidence of God controlling or magically preventing the corrupt interpretations of men for their various agendas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424
It was apparently created by both God and man; a partnership. God provided the words, man provided the transcription and duplication. There, summed up in two sentences.
Men provided the interpretations using their lack of knowledge, mistaken beliefs about God, and their human traditions, even after Jesus corrected them and unambiguously demonstrated their errors. Rather than abandon their preconceptions about God, they rejected Jesus and had Him scourged and crucified. Those who accepted Jesus unfortunately still retained their erroneous beliefs about God and interpreted Christ's Gospel (Good News) using their primitive beliefs and traditions of blood sacrifice. It is a travesty.
Old news or new news, it is just one of many indications that the Bible is the product of men inspired by God, but NOT dictated and NOT infallible or inerrant. There is zero evidence of God controlling or magically preventing the corrupt interpretations of men for their various agendas.
Men provided the interpretations using their lack of knowledge, mistaken beliefs about God, and their human traditions, even after Jesus corrected them and unambiguously demonstrated their errors. Rather than abandon their preconceptions about God, they rejected Jesus and had Him scourged and crucified. Those who accepted Jesus unfortunately still retained their erroneous beliefs about God and interpreted Christ's Gospel (Good News) using their primitive beliefs and traditions of blood sacrifice. It is a travesty.
The original Shorter Ending (c 70)AD
The Resurrection of Jesus.*1When the sabbath was over,a Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go and anoint him.b2Very early when the sun had risen, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb.3They were saying to one another, “Who will roll back the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?”4When they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back; it was very large.5On entering the tomb they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a white robe, and they were utterly amazed.c6He said to them, “Do not be amazed! You seek Jesus of Nazareth, the crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Behold, the place where they laid him.7But go and tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as he told you.’”d8Then they went out and fled from the tomb, seized with trembling and bewilderment. They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid. (It didn’t have any Ascension story).
The Longer Ending of Mark (Note: Early citations of it by the Fathers indicate that it was composed by the second century, although vocabulary and style indicate that it was written by someone other than Mark.)
9e When he had risen, early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.10f She went and told his companions who were mourning and weeping.11When they heard that he was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe.
The Appearance to Two Disciples.12g After this he appeared in another form to two of them walking along on their way to the country.13They returned and told the others; but they did not believe them either.
The Commissioning of the Eleven.14h [But] later, as the eleven were at table, he appeared to them and rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart because they had not believed those who saw him after he had been raised.15i He said to them, “Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.17These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages.18They will pick up serpents [with their hands], and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them. They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”j
The Ascension of Jesus.19So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up into heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God.k20But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the word through accompanying signs.]l
The Third ending of Mark was written sometime before 400 AD since Jerome quoted it.
The Freer Logion: Found afterMk 16:14 in a fourth-fifth century manuscript preserved in the Freer Gallery of Art, Washington, DC, this ending was known to Jerome in the fourth century. It reads: “And they excused themselves, saying, ‘This age of lawlessness and unbelief is under Satan, who does not allow the truth and power of God to prevail over the unclean things dominated by the spirits [or, does not allow the unclean things dominated by the spirits to grasp the truth and power of God]. Therefore reveal your righteousness now.’ They spoke to Christ. And Christ responded to them, ‘The limit of the years of Satan’s power is completed, but other terrible things draw near. And for those who sinned I was handed over to death, that they might return to the truth and no longer sin, in order that they might inherit the spiritual and incorruptible heavenly glory of righteousness. But….’”
Note the "words of God" in the Longer ending 18”They will pick up serpents [with their hands], and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them.” Do fundamentalists do this?
Are we to believe that all three are really inspired by God?
The bible was created by the living God through man and some of the books are a direct Words of God and then some other books would be history of God interaction with man , and the bible is anointed by God and the Words of God could be used to interact with God , as to receive Grace of God and His provision ...... Like the Greek mythology stories was created by fallen angels and man from the bible at Revelations 9:11 Jesus said Apollo was a king of the bottomless pit were devils go
As Mark Twain once said, "It's not the parts of the Bible I don't understand that bother me, it's the parts I do understand."
Such is the real objection so many on this forum have with Scripture. They know what it says, but, don't like it! ... so denigrate and undermine the entire Bible - in favor of their own opinion.
This is very old news. The Comma Johanneum is a known later scribal addition and not a part of the original autographs. It is therefore illogical to use it to question whether what is actually a part of the original autographs is ''God breathed.''
Old news or new news, it is just one of many indications that the Bible is the product of men inspired by God, but NOT dictated and NOT infallible or inerrant. There is zero evidence of God controlling or magically preventing the corrupt interpretations of men for their various agendas. [/quote]
RESPONSE: Much in scripture is later scribal addition as I have shown.
How about men NOT inspired by God but writing a putative "God breathed" legend instead?
But lets let Mike 555 present his evidence.
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Are we playing let's pretend with scripture?
