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Old 11-20-2017, 09:13 AM
 
642 posts, read 183,366 times
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Despite the frequent claim that all scripture is “God-breathed,” there are variations in the Bible that are doubtfully inspired by God. Rather they indicate that scripture was created by men.

For example:

1 John 5:7-8New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
7 There are three that testify:[a] 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.
AND

1 John 5:7-8New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
7 So there are three that testify, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.
AND

1 John 5:7-8English Standard Version (ESV)
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.


ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE IS THIS:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

“The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses, is a comma (a short clause) found in Latin manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century.[2] The first Greek manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century.[3] The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament.[3] The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies. As the comma does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages, the debate is mainly limited to the English-speaking world due to the King James Only movement.”


1 John 5:7-8New King James Version (NKJV)
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth:[a] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

“Christian fundamentalism began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among British and American Protestants[1][2] as a reaction to theological liberalism and cultural modernism. Fundamentalists argued that 19th-century modernist theologians had misinterpreted or rejected certain doctrines, especially biblical inerrancy, that they viewed as the fundamentals of the Christian faith……..

Fundamentalists are almost always described as having a literal interpretation of the Bible fundamentalists usually believe in a core of Christian beliefs that include the historical accuracy of the Bible and all its events as well as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.”
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:22 AM
 
642 posts, read 183,366 times
Reputation: 50
Default Was the Bible created by God or Man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotles child View Post
Despite the frequent claim that all scripture is “God-breathed,” there are variations in the Bible that are doubtfully inspired by God. Rather they indicate that scripture was created by men.

For example:

1 John 5:7-8New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
7 There are three that testify:[a] 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.
AND

1 John 5:7-8New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
7 So there are three that testify, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.
AND

1 John 5:7-8English Standard Version (ESV)
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.


ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE IS THIS:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

“The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses, is a comma (a short clause) found in Latin manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century.[2] The first Greek manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century.[3] The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament.[3] The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies. As the comma does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages, the debate is mainly limited to the English-speaking world due to the King James Only movement.”


1 John 5:7-8New King James Version (NKJV)
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth:[a] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

“Christian fundamentalism began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among British and American Protestants[1][2] as a reaction to theological liberalism and cultural modernism. Fundamentalists argued that 19th-century modernist theologians had misinterpreted or rejected certain doctrines, especially biblical inerrancy, that they viewed as the fundamentals of the Christian faith……..

Fundamentalists are almost always described as having a literal interpretation of the Bible..... fundamentalists usually believe in a core of Christian beliefs that include the historical accuracy of the Bible and all its events as well as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.”
Which do you believe?
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:54 AM
Status: "Adios to dummyland" (set 22 hours ago)
 
Location: Land of the Caddo and Tonkawa
3,902 posts, read 1,474,284 times
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It was apparently created by both God and man; a partnership. God provided the words, man provided the transcription and duplication. There, summed up in two sentences.
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:58 AM
 
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This is very old news. The Comma Johanneum is a known later scribal addition and not a part of the original autographs. It is therefore illogical to use it to question whether what is actually a part of the original autographs is ''God breathed.''
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
It was apparently created by both God and man; a partnership. God provided the words, man provided the transcription and duplication. There, summed up in two sentences.
While there are a few instances in which dictation is involved, such as in Revelation chapters two and three where Jesus told John what to write, in the vast majority of the cases the writers of scripture used their own words, their own vocabulary, their own writing style, and their own frame of reference to record God's message to man. This can be readily seen by the fact that in the synoptic gospels, in parallel accounts the different writers paraphase the events or sayings that they are reporting.

Having said that, yes, God is the divine author and He used human writers to pen the books and letters of the Bible under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit. This overseeing by the Holy Spirit included the grunt work done as for instance by Luke in which he investigated the eye witnesses of Jesus and compiled his information for his gospel account (Luke 1:1-4).
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:26 AM
 
4,024 posts, read 970,658 times
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it is a perfectly recorded record of God's interaction and history with mankind. and all the legalees of that relationship.. thus for sure all of the legalees were recorded precisely as God required a legal agreement between him and man to be.
the rest is a perfectly recorded histories of that interaction , of prophesies best man can describe those kind of things and those kinds of interactions where man is given a glimpse of events and objects way bigger and not understood well at the time of the vision or dream .. and the rest is legally binding in the legal Courts of God kingdom. and legally binding history account.
thus making the word Perfect in it's recordings as it in a court of God law... and you can that to the bank someday.

Now if God can get that 8 year old baby Girl Akiana , a child of an quite even militant atheistic family even making sure that baby girl never heard the name Jesus.. But he got her to paint his picture in spite of the parents .. He can and He did keep his history and his Records as perfect as that baby girl painted that picture of him.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:36 AM
 
642 posts, read 183,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This is very old news. The Comma Johanneum is a known later scribal addition and not a part of the original autographs. It is therefore illogical to use it to question whether what is actually a part of the original autographs is ''God breathed.''
RESPONSE: Lets look a little further at the question of alterations in the Bible.

From Wikipedia:

Other disputed New Testament passages

The Longer Ending of Mark
Pericope Adulteræ
Matthew 16:2b–3
Christ's agony at Gethsemane
John 5:3b–4
Doxology to the Lord's Prayer
Luke 22:19b–20

And the big question: Was the text of Matthew 28:19 changed? (If not why are the five references to Baptism in the name of Jesus alone and never the Trinity)?
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:40 AM
 
17,689 posts, read 8,866,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God is the divine author and He used human writers to pen the books and letters of the Bible under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit.
... without the supernatural beliefs of mankind, it would come crumbling down around you.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:12 AM
 
20,297 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotles child View Post
RESPONSE: Lets look a little further at the question of alterations in the Bible.

From Wikipedia:

Other disputed New Testament passages

The Longer Ending of Mark
Pericope Adulteræ
Matthew 16:2b–3
Christ's agony at Gethsemane
John 5:3b–4
Doxology to the Lord's Prayer
Luke 22:19b–20

And the big question: Was the text of Matthew 28:19 changed? (If not why are the five references to Baptism in the name of Jesus alone and never the Trinity)?
Every single issue you're bringing up concerns whether or not changes were made by later scribes to later manuscript copies and have no bearing on whether what was originally written by the New Testament writers themselves in the original autographs was inspired or God breathed. And Bible translations usually indicate these textual variants. As for the longer ending of Mark and the Pericope Adulterae, they are, along with the Comma Johanneum, the biggest and longest of the textual variants, and again, are known to be later additions and not original to the text.

Alterations to manuscript copies which of course were produced after the original autographs do not invalidate the inspiration of the original autographs.

Last edited by Mike555; 11-20-2017 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:20 AM
 
20,297 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
... without the supernatural beliefs of mankind, it would come crumbling down around you.
How limited of thought and mind to be unable to accept the existence of realms beyond the visible, physical realm which we inhabit. How is it that you are unable or unwilling to conceive of the supernatural realm which exists beyond the natural realm?
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