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Old 12-15-2017, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Finland
709 posts, read 377,584 times
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From The Bible:

12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey the lusts thereof:

13. neither present your members unto sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves unto God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace. (Roman 6)
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,168,574 times
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Context...

See the word, "Therefore"? We must take into consideration the preceding thought, and my teachers taught me that 6 comes after 5.

Chapter 5 is the foundation of our nature; that it was not our sin but Adam's that made us sinners - likewise, it is not our obedience that makes us righteous, but Christ's. (Romans 5:19)

So now, to the point: what is our mindset? Our obedience, or His? Our standing before God, or our High Priest's (Christ's)?

Are we consumed with, "what would Jesus do", or "what has Jesus done"?

The goal is REST (Hebrews 4).
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:27 AM
 
Location: central Florida
1,146 posts, read 647,614 times
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THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

The Bible predicts that in the End Times many would be seduced by doctrines of demons. I submit to the reader that one such demonic doctrine is what is being peddled as the doctrine of grace.

"Go out and sin this week that grace may abound." - Dean of Trinity Bible college, Florida

I sat in a Baptist church one Sunday and listened to a sermon on grace presented by a fellow who, at that time, was a Dean of Trinity Bible College in Florida. The sermon was very erudite until it completely fell apart at the end. The single line presented by the Dean at the end of his message is quoted above. The congregation bought it. I left and never returned.

There is a common misconception about the doctrine of grace and its role in the redemption of man. It's being perpetrated upon believers who, not willing to study for themselves, buy it hook line and sinker. The lie is that the Law has been destroyed.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." - Jesus as quoted by Mathew 5:17.

Grace is given SO THAT one may live according to the Law. Ok, so what's the Law?

There are two general categories of religious legalism.

First is Mosaic Law also known as the Ten Commandments. This is the Law Jesus talks about when he mentions sin. Violation of the law, even in one's imagination, is sin. The purpose of the Law is to convict of sin. The Law defines sin as those acts which God forbids. All of mankind is subject to this Law regardless of race, nationality, religious affiliation or philosophy.

Second is what I call Kosher law. When the Hebrews were miraculously delivered out of bondage in Egypt they pledged themselves to obey God's Law/Mosaic Law. They failed to do so and in time God stripped them of the blessings and the very land He gave them. The remnants of the tribes of Hebrews were taken captive to Babylon because of their sins. While in Babylon the religious leaders repented of their sins and went overboard in the opposite direction. They became overly legalistic. The result was a document called the Talmud. Approximately 15,000 pages in length, the Talmud added rules and regulations to Mosaic Law making a total of approximately 613 laws.

When Jesus founded the church, He reduced the number of laws and rules from 613 to 2 - the shema and V'ahavta(*). The Holy Spirit guided St. Peter (ministered to Jews) and St. Paul (ministered to gentiles) to proclaim that gentiles were not required to keep kosher law - only Mosaic Law/The Ten Commandments. It's therefore ok for gentiles to eat ham and eggs for breakfast and a cheeseburger for lunch. (pork products are forbidden by Kosher law and the same law forbids eating dairy with meat - even though McDonald's serves plastic cheese with its mystery meat burgers)

3rd Law - secular error
It has often been said that nobody's perfect or that everybody makes mistakes. These phrases are meant to subvert God's Holy Law. Both Moses and Jesus said that we are to keep the Law. Moses said it would be easy and Jesus said His followers should be perfect as He is perfect. Why would Moses and Jesus say we should keep the Law if it couldn't be kept? In actual fact it IS possible to be perfect.

A mistake is not the same as a sin.

When a child learns to ride a bicycle she may fall off before she gets it right. A boy make make a bad play in Little League before he understands how to play baseball. Did the little girl sin when she fell off her bicycle or did she just make a mistake? Did the boy sin when he made a bad play in baseball or did he just make a mistake? A mistake is NOT the same thing as a sin.

Jesus spent many years as a carpenter. I imagine that He smashed His finger with a hammer many times and that He may have dropped a heavy piece of lumber on His foot a few times. He probably hollered in pain. He made mistakes, but He never took the Lord's name in vain and sinned. Do you understand the difference?

The world in general and the believer in particular are called to be perfect in accord with the Law of Moses as enabled by the grace of the Holy Spirit who writes God's Law in our hearts so as to not offend the Almighty.

Grace is given that we may be justified before God - NOT so as to go out and sin more. The woman caught in adultery was forgiven by Jesus and told to 'go out and sin no more'. Jesus didn't tell her she was forgiven so that she could open a brothel, yet the post modern church is being led to believe this very thing is possible and allowable. It's a demonic lie masquerading as grace.

Beware the lies of secularized religion. It IS possible to live a perfect life - believers are commanded to do so from Moses to Jesus.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*)
The shema is the oldest statement of faith.

Shema Israel Adonai Eloheinu (Hear O Israel the Lord thy God.)
Adonai echad. (The Lord is One) [note the use of Hebrew word 'echad' instead of 'yachid'].

Echad is a plural of the word One, as for example the Latin phrase e pluribus unum 'from many, one' to describe the political unity and diversity of the states of the federation of the United States. Echad suggests God/Adonai is a plural yet unified entity.
Yachid is an absolute one. One is one, meaning only a single item in Hebrew.
Jews stumble on this definition. Why is the word echad used instead of yachid?

The shema prayer is ancient and suggests a dimension of God's character that is not generally admitted today by the Jewish community.

The V'ahavta is an extension of the shema. "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Last edited by Choir Loft; 12-16-2017 at 07:40 AM..
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,151,240 times
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Christians should just stop sinning. They will feel better.
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:05 AM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,609,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Christians should just stop sinning. They will feel better.
i don't know what stops them. They lack self control or something. It is never more obvious that men in the news being called out for rape, pedophilia, groping and threatening women.

Someone no doubt will declare those men are not Christian. That ship has sailed.
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:59 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 6,992,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Context...

See the word, "Therefore"? We must take into consideration the preceding thought, and my teachers taught me that 6 comes after 5.

Chapter 5 is the foundation of our nature; that it was not our sin but Adam's that made us sinners - likewise, it is not our obedience that makes us righteous, but Christ's. (Romans 5:19)

So now, to the point: what is our mindset? Our obedience, or His? Our standing before God, or our High Priest's (Christ's)?

Are we consumed with, "what would Jesus do", or "what has Jesus done"?

The goal is REST (Hebrews 4).
Great post.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:01 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 6,992,920 times
Reputation: 3583
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
i don't know what stops them. They lack self control or something. It is never more obvious that men in the news being called out for rape, pedophilia, groping and threatening women.

Someone no doubt will declare those men are not Christian. That ship has sailed.
The same reason why unbelievers can't stop sinning.

As for men in the news? I've seen a lot of female teachers in the news lately that are being caught with high school and middle school boys. It's not isolated to only one gender.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:15 AM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,609,185 times
Reputation: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
The same reason why unbelievers can't stop sinning.

As for men in the news? I've seen a lot of female teachers in the news lately that are being caught with high school and middle school boys. It's not isolated to only one gender.
You lack self control. I suggest you gain some. You are a sinner? Stop sinning. Go cold turkey. Come clean. Take that risk of living a sin free life. Stop making excuses for your behavior, and the behavior of other Christian men.

Your whatabout-ism is another ship that has sailed.

The Me Too movement is open to every gender, and race and religion. The predominant stories are from women. They describe rape, assault, harassment, and threats.
You should speak to your daughters about this. You should talk to them about speaking up when they get harassed. Every Christian owes their children the ability to speak out and up.

So share your story of harassment, and assault with others. You will give other men courage to speak.
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:03 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 6,992,920 times
Reputation: 3583
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
You lack self control. I suggest you gain some. You are a sinner? Stop sinning. Go cold turkey. Come clean. Take that risk of living a sin free life. Stop making excuses for your behavior, and the behavior of other Christian men.

Your whatabout-ism is another ship that has sailed.

The Me Too movement is open to every gender, and race and religion. The predominant stories are from women. They describe rape, assault, harassment, and threats.
You should speak to your daughters about this. You should talk to them about speaking up when they get harassed. Every Christian owes their children the ability to speak out and up.

So share your story of harassment, and assault with others. You will give other men courage to speak.
Did you realize pride is a sin?
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,151,240 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Did you realize pride is a sin?
So is sanctimonious hypocrisy.
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